Thank you Ira. Again thank you for coming out this morning. Thank you Ira for the introduction. We are going to be discussing the structure and operation of De Anza Cupertino Aquatics, specifically the way that we operate our various businesses.
In the traditional club model the parents are responsible in three areas:
1) Fundraising for the team.
2) Assisting the staff as needed with administrative duties such as billing, bookkeeping, membership registration, etc.
3) Running swim meets.
In our model, the way that we operate at DACA, we have eliminated the parents in those first two areas. There is no parental fund raising. Additionally, the staff runs the entire program from billing to registration. I am going to give you a brief overview of our program, where we started & where we are now. Starting back ten years ago Pete Raykovich became the head coach and executive director of the program. When he came to De Anza Cupertino Aquatics it was probably what we would all call an “average” swim club. There was 80-100 swimmers total in the competitive program, which was the only business or program that the team ran. The top group, the senior kids in the team, they were at a level where most of them would have to shave to even qualify for the high school championship meet, let alone winning an event or placing. Additionally, the team’s finances were what could be termed as “average” for a swim club. At the end of each year, to balance out the books, the parents would run a “cow patty derby.” Basically you mark off a football field in grids, sell the squares to the audience, they would bring out some poor cow, and let it wander around the field. Whoever’s square the cow does “its thing,” in would win x amount of money – with the remainder going to the team.
The parents at that time were looking for a coach, and were really tired of having to do the bulk of the work. This is something that a lot of parent groups say, but we had a group that was really looking to build something, also in the area where we are in Silicon Valley a lot of the parents kind of had that entrepreneurial mind set, where they were looking for and willing to give the team to a professional and let that professional run the organization.
Pete was very attracted by this and also that the team operated on a strategic plan that was re-evaluated every year. When Pete took control and evaluated the team, there were five initial goals in the area of funding that he felt would turn things around.
The first was to eliminate volunteerism and fund raising. Those two areas are what give the membership voice and power, but more so it reduces the stability of your program because now you are depending on those parents to really give you your pay check, pay for the facility, pay for all the things you need to create the best program you can. So it was vital that the businesses of DACA pay for itself rather than relying on the parents and fundraising.
Secondly, having staff-driven programs. The staff would be responsible in all areas of all programs. The staff can be held accountable to a high level of expectation, something that can’t be done with volunteers.
Thirdly, as I said before, that the programs and businesses that DACA run would fund the program entirely.
That we would develop contingency funds. Right now we are going through a period of time where we are going to get displaced. De Anza College is being refurbished for approximately six months. One of our funds is a facility contingency fund. It is going to cost us an incredible amount of money to relocate into four or five separate facilities, but we had a contingency fund in place. Another example – natural disaster. What do you do if you have a staff of 20 fulltime people and you have a huge earthquake that renders your pool useless? Those 20 people you have a responsibility to. They have to pay their mortgage, their rent whatever and so there are contingency funds in that area as well, again, to stabilize the program.
Additionally, increasing pool space and availability was important, when Pete started we only had use of the facility from 5-7 o’clock at night and that was sharing the pool with various other college programs, lap swimming, classes what have you. Now we have the pool from 3:30 until 9 o’clock at night and we will talk about how we were able to do that in a little bit.
Additionally, De Anza College had always run a summer swim lesson program and that is something that we have been able to bring under DACA’s management and supervision, as well as their lap swimming program and the college aquatic teams – the swimming and water polo programs. Having that under DACA’s supervision or management just help the entire facility to function as efficiently as possible. As we are all on the same page, all the programs can dovetail together. Everyone is at the same staff meeting, and there is a lot of communication – it just helps reduce problems and again, helps us be more stable in our setting.
As far as the fulltime career staff area, Pete felt it was important that we had a staff that would develop roots in the community, coaches that would be in the area for a number of years – ten years – twenty years – their whole career. That would again add stability to the program – the longer a coach has been there the better they are going to be able to handle their program and that again is very important, and in our area where an apartment can rent for $15,000 a month – most don’t, but just to give you an idea of what Silicon Valley is like, it was also important that the coaches had full benefits and were paid a livable salary; something that they would be able to get by on.
As far as our current status, you can think of De Anza Cupertino Aquatics as having an “umbrella” of five businesses. We have the De Anza Swim School, the De Anza Summer Swim, which I had mentioned, the De Anza College lap swimming, and the Colleges’ swimming and water polo teams. Additionally, we operate a pre-competitive team that is separate from our competitive team, which will get into the details of momentarily.
Our recent bylaw changes are something very important as far as the structure and the operation of the program, and as far as the long-term stability of the coaching staff. We, in this past year, passed a bylaw change so that our bylaws now reflect the way that we currently do business and that was something that we felt really important to have. We hired the top law firm, really in the country, from what we have heard that specialized in non-profit public benefit corporations and the “public benefit” portion of that is important. We do, with the size of our program, get a lot of commentary from people in the area about our size and how we have so much, but it is important to remember that we started with 80 swimmers. The difference is that we have a staff, led by Pete’s example, which worked, and continues to work, incredibly hard to get us to this point. All of that work is so that we can have the program we do, and we can offer what we do to our swimmers. Speaking of non-profits and public benefits, if you look at, for instance, Habitat for Humanity, they operate on a million-dollar-a-day budget, and that is a public benefit corporation. Our bylaws have changed the way the club and board are structured; now we have a self-perpetuating board, which has seven members on it. Now, if you were looking to do something like this, obviously you have to have a situation where you have a Board of Directors who are very much on the same page with you and your Vision, who you trust because now really the power is in the Board, not the membership. The Board has seven members, four of those were current members of the team, and three are at large. The three at large does include the Executive Director of the Corporation. There is no Board assessment of the staff. The only real requirement is that there is one meeting per year. The membership can go to that meeting. They can have a voice at the meeting, but they have no vote. They cannot vote to change the board. They cannot vote to overthrow the coaching staff or anything of that nature. What we have done now is really insulated the staff. The staff now just runs the business and really the Board just needs to decide are things going well – yes or no. The Board has no evaluation of the program and no feedback into the coaching side of the program. As far as the membership, again, they have no vote. Also, there are no committees that they are on. We try to do as much as we can with our staff, or we will hire it out. For instance, I am the meet director in the program. The one area, as I mentioned earlier, that we have parent’s help is running swim meets, generally with the timing, set up, tear down, etc. however, we try to have as much of the staff do that as possible because a volunteer – you cannot really hold them to a time line or get on them if they are getting behind because they are volunteering out of their own time and there isn’t that accountability mentioned earlier. Additionally, the parent’s only other requirement is that their conduct falls within the team’s philosophy, and I know what I just said kind of sounds a little bit heavy handed like the coaching staff can do this and that, but you need to understand we got large because we feel that we have done the correct things, that quality has really driven the program to become so large and with that in mind we wanted to make sure that we stabilized it for the long haul because that is in the best interest of the swimmers on the team. To finalize the bylaws, the staff responsibilities fall into two areas; conduct of all business of the club and the performance of an annual audit.
As I mentioned earlier, we have in the entire organization approximately 20 fulltime employees and about 80 part time employees, and really what we are looking for is to have each kid have the best possible experience. So, starting from left to right (see handout) I am just kind of go through a brief overview of what the different businesses entail, give you some numbers, ideas of what is happening within each of those areas. The DACA swim school is in its 7th year of operation, and is currently directed by Karen Montgomery. Right now it is operating 7 days a week from 6 am to 9:30 at night, and we have up to 2,000 swimmers a week going through the lesson program. The lessons operate in three to four sessions per year. Additionally, the instructors go through a paid training program. We want the instructors to do a very good job teaching the lessons because we want the talk of the town to be, “hey, go to DACA Swim School, and get your lessons there.” Right now we have waiting lists that in some time areas are as long as three years – that is the popularity of our swim lesson program right now.
The summer swim program, as I mentioned earlier, is something that the college previously had run. Now it is under DACA’s management. Currently I am the director of the program so I hire all the staff and train them. It is an eight-week program, with four sessions of two weeks each. The lessons run for a half-hour Monday through Thursdays. Here we are kind of marketing to a little bit different clientele than the swim school does – it is a little bit more of a “fun in the sun” type of a program. So we take care of running the program, and then at the end of each summer, after the expenses are taken out, the proceeds are split with the college. We have taken all the headache away from the college as far as managing the program and now they just see the revenues from it. As far as the college program – it is fairly basic, just a lap swim program mornings and evenings, only now we are able to dovetail it in with the other programs just to make sure that everything is fitting appropriately. The college’s swimming teams and their water polo teams – those are fairly self-explanatory.
This is the current structure of our groups in the pre-competitive program. Each one of these groups is offered at least two to three different times a day. The barracudas are for 10 and under’s only – to get into that group you have to swim a 25 free and a 25 backstroke. We run evaluations every Tuesday evening where we hand out numbers to the families as they arrive, and then they come down in order. We try the swimmer out, and then they are referred to a certain group on the team or possibly to the swim school or to summer swim if they are not quite at that level yet. The groups here in the boxes – all practice for 30 minutes; the ruby group practices for 40 minutes per day. With the pre-competitive program we run four sessions a year. As I said, they are in twice a week. We have up to 400 swimmers per session, and we have low instructor-student ratios. The ratio of instructors is 1:6 in all of the groups except ruby, where it is 1:15. Additionally the program is pre-scripted. The instructors each day come out and they have a plan that was given to them of exactly what they are going to work on so that we can make sure that everything is being covered A, B, C and D to get them ready to move up to the next level. The Pre-Comp kids are evaluated twice each session, we call then a mid-term and a final, their strokes are assessed, they are timed swimming a certain set of 25s, and then they are given a written assessment by the coach and that happens twice a year. Basically, at the end it is either (hopefully) pass and they move up to the next level or they would need to stay in the group longer.
Now on to the competitive program. First off, it is the only program in the team where our expenses exceed the revenues and this is something that is anticipated. We have up to 400 – 450 swimmers in our competitive program. This year something new that we are starting the senior and the national groups are going to be enrolled as a no credit class through the college district. This just helps again with our security into the program. The college is now receiving their daily money from the state for having that enrollment and it just helps us as far as now – those are also classes in the facility. Additionally, one of the perks that is kind of offered, the national group has team paid travel. Wherever we go the travel is paid for. Additionally, when we travel to a meet we do so with chaperones (often staff members) that are there to take care of the swimmers. The chaperones arrange for dinner to be waiting for the swimmers at the hotel when we return for finals. They eat and they can go right into their rooms and we are able to offer them so many things like that to try to insure success at the competitions, and that is one of those anticipated areas where our expenses are going to exceed our revenues.
One thing that is really important to note when you look at the five different businesses that we run – no business is run as a feeder program. When a decision is made about the swim school or the pre-competitive team the decisions are made with what is in that programs best interest in mind. We don’t want to minimize one programs success because we are worried about hurting another program. We are all hopefully on the same page so that is not happening. We want to run each business to the best of its ability and obviously there is going to be a lot of feeder activity, if you want to call it that from the swim school into the swim team and into the pre-competitive program.
The question was with regard to my comment of running the businesses as five separate businesses and the observation is the swim school is generating a lot of revenue, the swim team is running at a little bit of a loss and “is that money A) going to subsidize the upper level travel and B) does that cause problems with the swim school where they could say well we could have higher salaries and what not over a year.” First off with as far as the subsidy of the travel – our budget is such, and some of these numbers I can’t get into because we do have confidentiality agreements – our budget is such that the national team’s travel I wouldn’t say is that large in terms of the whole budget, so it is not really going just to subsidize one group with 450 or so swimmers on a team, there is a large amount of money coming in as far as the cash flow and obviously we have a lot of salaries and what not. It doesn’t run terribly in the red. As far as your second question – the way the swim school is set up there is the Director, who is also one of our coaches and is really probably the only one that really has that kind of knowledge of what is going on. Finally, regarding employees “wanting a bigger piece of the pie,” if someone thinks they deserve a raise they can always ask. Our employees, however, understand that we operate as a business, certain jobs pay a certain range – if they want more money they need to do more work. As far as the instructors go – they are mostly high school, college people. They are paid mostly 12- 14 dollars an hour to teach lessons in four-hour blocks and really we have never really had a problem with that. There are plenty of instructors that we can hire and with the swim school in a different area and being real compartmentalized there is not much chitchat going on back and forth where they would really know.
The dues structure basically ranges from $69 at the entry level to just above $200 for the top group. We have had one dues increase in the last nine years. As far as salaries – that is kind of getting into an area that I have to be pretty careful – but I can say that the Director of the swim school is awarded for the success of the school – that I can say. As far as how much I don’t even know, so I couldn’t give you that number. One of the things that is done – Pete really looks to hire loyal coaches – we are there for the success of the program and aren’t going to be worried about that. If Pete were to get an idea that maybe somebody was more interested in money than the success of the program in an interview and that is something that he is really going to check into – that person isn’t really going to have a chance of employment. I don’t know if that really answers your questions, but the issue really hasn’t come up too much – just as Tammy said – the staff and the coaches are rewarded for longevity with the program – I hope that helped a little bit.
Other questions before we – good question. The question was regarding how we insure our Pre-Comp swimmers, which was something that was about to come up. With our pre-competitive program, one of the ways that we keep the cost down is they are not members of US Swimming. You can go out and insure them for 3-4-5 dollars a swimmer through outside sources and I am not quite sure who we have and the specific insurance area, but it is pretty minimal. The Pre-Comp Swimmers don’t compete in meets, but that is really not what we are looking for in the program. They are just learning the four strokes and getting them ready, hopefully, to go into the competitive team if they choose.
The question was with regard to the Board and our situation – being parents but not maybe having as much power as a traditional board – “would it be of more value to have outside corporate type people that maybe were not involved emotionally or what have you with the program.” We do, as I said, there are three at large members who are parents of ex-swimmers. Of the four current members, a couple of those are college age swimmers and that is counted as current in our program. To be more specific to your question, I have heard positive’s and negative‘s with regard to that. I have heard coaches say that they found that those types of executives could really stick to a strategic plan and ignore the noise of the average complaints. I have also heard the exact opposite that they would get sick of hearing people complaining and want to ask the coach to fix the problem. It is probably more important that the team is structured so that it has the possibility of achieving long-term success and stability; everything else should then fall into place.
The question was with our bylaw change, and “did we have trouble getting it through?” The answer is no. Obviously the time has to be right for something like that. As far as our parents group, we don’t have a huge amount of parents out in the stands watching practice, or even concerned with the team structure. We do have some in the stands watching practice, but as we don’t have the parents involved in fundraising or committees and they know they really don’t have any voice or input, there isn’t too much for them to do out there. They know that if they call a board member, the board member is going to say, “Call the coaches” and that is it. If they want to talk to the coaches, obviously we will schedule a meeting with them and try to work out whatever the problem or issue may be. If it appears that their philosophies differ with ours, then there are lots of other programs in the area that can suit them. So the time definitely was also right. The board was all in agreement to make this move, to make the team more stable, and also the law firm helped us with the wording of letters to the membership, just to make sure we had everything clear and concise, and that if they had any concerns, they would have answers.
QUESTION: “How is your swim school insured?” I am not positive on that one Bill, but I believe it is insured with the same company as the pre-competitive program, something similar where it is based on the number of bodies.
QUESTION: Was there one other question? The question was how do we advertise and recruit for a staff of approximately 100? With the coaching – the full time end of it – hopefully that part stays fairly stable on a regular basis; hopefully by design. The swim school is really where we have the largest turnover with the high school and college age people and we will have the swim school managers go out to college campuses and hand out flyers to everybody they see. We are talking paid training. They are going to start at $12 an hour. They will put up flyers all over college campuses. We have an ad that periodically runs in the San Jose paper as well as a couple of other smaller, more local type papers.
QUESTION: The question was with regard to our 20-fulltime staff – how do we employ them if they are not on the deck for 8 hours at a time? As our Head Age Group Coach Tammy Hopkins mentioned earlier, there is a number that work at the swim school and also on the competitive team coaching, or they maybe will go in and maybe teach lesions or deck supervise or being more of a management type position at the swim school and then also come over and coach the swim team. With the five different businesses there is really a lot of ways that person’s hours can be filled. For instance, I coach the national group in the evening with Pete and during the day there are various administrative things I am doing to get ready for the pre-competitive program or with the lap swim program in addition to just what comes up on a day to day basis with a business of our size.
QUESTION: The question was regarding our office situation, where everyone works, and how we communicate. We have an office that is located about a mile or a mile and a half from the college campus, and a smaller office located at the Swim School. We are co-sponsored by the city of Cupertino, with one of the main perks being office space. The office is staffed by a fulltime office manager, Tammy Hopkins – our head age group coach and age group program director is in there for office hours. Pete is generally there in the morning and then we have Jamie Ballard who is the pre-competitive assistant – she is in there for office hours. We have the DACA swim school, which is a separate site – actually just across from the campus. As mentioned, there is an office in there that has a staff – depending on the time of year and time of day, of 3 to 7 or 8 people and they are doing administrative tasks for the swim school. I have a home office that I work out of during the day. We generally will have a staff meeting once a week where we all come together and Tammy and Pete will assign out various tasks. We will talk about where we are with regard to other tasks and discuss other matters. As far as Pete in his position as Executive Director, he will bounce around a little bit throughout the day. He will go over to the swim school and see how things are operating and spend some time on the deck when he is not in the office or on deck with the national group.
QUESTION: The question was with regard to our cash flow and is the staff responsible for handling the money? The coaches really do not handle money unless they are in an administrative position, and then maybe they are collecting money and it is either going into a bank account and we bring a copy of the deposit receipt to our office manager or the money goes just goes to our office manage and she takes it from there. Our one board position – parent that we do have – we do have one parent that is a controller – who has a real strong background, but most importantly, Pete just implicit trust with. Most likely if and when she ever moves on when her kids are out of swimming that will be a hired out position.
QUESTION: The question was regarding the various roles an employee could have with DACA, and are we doing the same thing every day? The day-to-day activities of the coaching staff really can change. A lot of it is similar, probably even to 80% of it is the same thing and the same job, but is that 20% – with us operating as much as we do, there are people that get sick and maybe you will have to drop what you are doing and cover for somebody else – that type of thing. We are not at loss for things to do definitely so there are always things that can be assigned out – office work that can be done – administrative tasks that can be done.
QUESTION: how do we market our program? At this point is basically through word-of-mouth, the papers, and our newly revamped website. We have one person on staff whose job it is to try to make contact with newspapers to get stories and pictures in.
QUESTION: What is the usual hourly breakdown of your full-time employees? With the coaches that are working on both the competitive deck coaching and then also working on deck at the swim school – they would generally maybe be putting in 20 hours a week at the swim school and then the coaching would probably add up to around 20 hours a week.
QUESTION: The question was with regard to software programs, tracking the volume of kids we do. Classmart Pro is the name of the software that we currently use for the Swim School and Pre-Comp. The program keeps track of historical databases, so that we can send out mailings to specific target groups. With the competitive team we use Hy-Tek, – probably as many of you are
QUESTION: The question was when we are planning our seasonal calendars how do we fit it in? Generally, we have a fall, winter, spring, and summer session for the pre-comp program. The pre-comp group starts this Monday and we will go until a couple of weeks before Christmas. The next session will then pick up again a little bit after the new year and run somewhere until the spring break area, and pick back up through the summer. The Swim School closes for two weeks each winter for painting, cleaning, and maintenance.
QUESTION: What is the physical size of your swim school; do you have any plans for expansion? The first question was the size of our swim school – physical size and then also plans for expansion. We have a structure that we have put over what was an outdoor pool. It is just basically a metal structure with thick canvas that can be zipped up when it is hot in the summer. The pool itself is about 7-8 yards wide by about 12-15 yards long. Generally we can fit in about four classes – about four classes can fit in with 4 kids each at a time. As far as expansion – pool space is just really at a premium in our area. Most of it is either impacted with other programs or maybe is only offered at certain times, certain parts of the year, or the practice time would have to constantly change, so we couldn’t tell somebody you are always going to be Tuesday at 3 o’clock. We would have to say okay, this time you are going to be here, this time you are going to be there. We are always trying to find a place that we could have control of the water space.
QUESTION: The question is – are lesson programs prioritized with small groups or private? As far as the group lessons, they are all 4:1. If somebody wants a private lesson they have to basically buy out 4 peoples spot to take that so that is an option.
QUESTION: How much did your pool enclosure cost? And how has it worked out? That was before my time – about 5 years ago – do you have any idea Dave (Salo)? (responds with about $15,000). As far as function, it has worked out real well. It keeps the pool area very warm inside. The water temperature is kept just less than 90 degrees and the enclosure really helps keep both the cost of heating down as well as keeps the kids and the instructors warm.
QUESTION: The question was do we have a retail shop through our swim school? We do – just basically selling products the kids will need, such as goggles. They do sell other stuff if the kids need it, but that is a fairly small – mostly just goggles. There are some caps and what not there. In the competitive team we have something similar, but we made a decision to run the store as a service to our members, we didn’t want to make a profit off of our membership on that, so they are given merchandise at cost be it fins, paddles, what have you.
QUESTION: Can you repeat the numbers of swimmers you have? The competitive program will have up to 400-450, pre-competitive up to 400-450, the summer swim program up to 500, in the Swim School program up to 2,000 a week.
QUESTION: The question was with regard to our swim schools, and the hours of operation. The prime hours are after school, but we do operate during the day. Basically the swim school is full from 6 am – 9:30 pm seven days a week. On the weekends it closes a bit earlier than that but it is a full program at kind of the peak hours that are most popular. As I said, we have had people on waiting lists for years that want to stay on the waiting list for that specific time, so it is a popular program. The lessons are 30 minutes, and meet once a week for the session, and there is usually 3 to 4 session per year.
When Pete made the decision to start the Swim School, he really spent a lot of time researching all the different models that were available in the country, and selected a swim school that operates in the Half Moon Bay area and they have a real good model as far as the way that they run the entire business. We have a consultant-type relationship with them, they helped us set up and train our people, so we are sort of a mirror of them and some things have changed a little bit, but it is fairly just simple.
QUESTION: At what age do we start the water polo program? The water polo is a college team. In the summer swim actually we are going to be starting a little bit more of a water polo program for kids. We toyed around with it a little bit this past summer and had a pretty good response and so that is something that we are going to be looking to do in the future.
QUESTION: The question was how is our relationship with the college. When Pete first got to DACA he recognized obviously to have a solid team, you have to have control of your water space. So Pete, being the professional that he is, those first couple of years he worked seven days a week, well over a hundred hours a week making sure that everything was done perfectly. When the college would ask something of us it was done immediately, and done perfectly. When Pete came into the program the school required that parents stay in all the locker rooms and be locker room attendants for the entire length of practice and we were probably seen as a bit of a pain in the neck for the school. Now the school sees us as an asset. They like it because we have taken a lot of their headaches and extra administrative work away from them, and they just see the revenue now from. It is something that we have worked really hard to accomplish and now we just have to make sure that we keep doing everything as perfectly as we can.
QUESTION: The question was – who is in charge of the college swimming program and finding who pays them and what not? Pete basically runs the college programs. Underneath him we do have a head men and women’s water polo coach that do the day-to-day coaching. They get from the college district a small stipend, similar to a high school coach would. This is all a part of their package with DACA; their pay would include doing that job. The school does have a budget for travel and what not to cover the bulk of the costs.
QUESTION The question was our relationship financially with the district as far as pool rental and the other businesses – we do have a rental fee that is just paid to the district, in addition to the summer swim and the lap swim money that is shared. Yes, we do have a rental fee. Additionally to that we will usually every year give some type of a gift to the facility, be it new lane lines or new blocks or something of that nature – flags just to help everything look real nice and the school really appreciates that, and it really helps in numerous ways.
QUESTION: The question was if we were in the process of hiring a new coach, who would make that decision? The decision process is very simple; it is Pete’s decision solely.
QUESTION: The question was regarding the recent power crisis in California, and the current state of the economy, have we seen our pool rent increase? Not really, there is, but we are in a fairly affluent area and De Anza College has a fairly large enrollment at just over 30,000 so we haven’t really seen that. We are kind of expecting some increases with the power fees and water and what not so that is something that we are anticipating.
QUESTION: The question was does the school take care of the facility and maintain it, and then we are in there managing the programs, and that is correct. They had some of these programs in place, but at much lower levels and not quite as successful or stable and a lot of complaints, people calling the athletic director complaining about this and that and now, they don’t hear anything.
QUESTION: Was it hard to set up enrolling your swimmers for college courses. This is the first year we are doing it and it has been fairly easy. I spoke with another coach yesterday who kind of was doing the same thing and he said that he had run into some problems. In our case the club is paying for the registration, which I think, might take care of some of the issues that the other coach had encountered
QUESTION: The question was which programs are we registering as non-credit classes? Currently it is just the national and senior groups. We may consider expanding it – we are just going to kind of see how this works right now and as we go through kind of our displacement while our pool is being refurbished, we are just going to monitor how things go and maybe expand it next year. It is a non-credit.
Any other questions?
Again, thank you for coming out this afternoon. Thank you – if you have any other questions feel free to contact us.
DACA Competitive Team Structure
DACA Pre-Competitive Team Structure