Story Telling with Great Coaches-Tim Murphy (1998)


[Editor’s note: We are reprinting this just as it was transcribed by a professional stenographer in order to retain the originality and the candor. Think of it as reading a transcript from a trial, well… maybe that’s not a good idea. We made no attempt to alter the events or the spelling of the names — which, of course could possibly hide the guilty, or give credit to the innocent, but then again, any references to real or imagined people could be… real or imagined.]

I’m Tim Murphy. I’m your host for this evening. I asked a number of people in the coaching profession to share some stories with us this evening. I’m not exactly sure what they are going to say. I imagine that some of them are going to be very interesting. Some of them are going to be humorous. And over all, I think it will be very entertaining. One of the things that is going to make this work a little bit, is that I’ve left some time in here for any of you who have a short funny story, or an interesting story, or just something that you have learned that you think would contribute to the evening. I would love some people, I know there’s a lot of stories out there, I would love for some of you to come up and share in with this. So, I’m hoping as the evening goes on, and things loosed up a little bit, that you all become very interactive with this.

When I asked coaches to share something with us this evening, I really left it up to them. I really tried to not hold them to a certain theme. So, I think we’re going to get a wide array of some interesting things this evening. First up, a gentlemen Steve Boltman, from the University of Georgia. I think he’s going to start the evening off on a humorous note. So, Steve, you’re on buddy.

Steve: I’m going to go with the humorous. When Tim asked me, I don’t know how many months ago it was, I said sure, I guess so. And, I was thinking about well what am I going to talk about. And, I was like, well geez I hope I don’t have to go first, because then I can at least see what everybody else is talking about. But, then we were standing in the back, and we were like, well how many speakers do you have. And, he said, well, like five of you all. Well, how are we going to do this. And, finally I said, well, I can tell my Full Monty story.

So, how many of you all have seen the movie the Full Monty? How many of you have seen the ASCA picture the Full Monty? Ohh, well, a couple of you, OK. Well, let me explain what happened. I was one of the coaches on the National Junior Team this year that went to London. Well, went to England, we went to Sheffield. And, I had not seen that movie, The Full Monty. But, a couple of the coaches had. And, so they_. I mean they were like, we have got to go to this place, this bar where they did this_ the deal with the Full Monty. These guys are out of work in England, and they basically, you know, heard about the Chippendale dancers that took their clothes off to make money. And, so they were like, you know, we’ll do this. So, they did this. And, that’s the way the movie ended. So, couple of the coaches had seen this. And, they were like we’ve got to go to this place and get a picture taken. This will be great, we can do this, we can put it in ASCA, Swimming World, or something like that. So, a couple of them that had seen the movie found out where they thought this place was, the bar was. And, we go there, and sure enough the place is closed. This is in England in May, and this is the first time I had been in England. But, it was cold, and drizzly, and we go outside this place that’s not open. We’re standing outside. We take our shirts off, and I don’t know if.. how many of you know Dee Holler, she was one of the managers on the team. And, she’s out there with camera taking pictures. And, you know, we’re no shirts on, shorts, pulled our shorts up and we’re kind of holding things in front of us. And, we were, you know, going to get a picture taken, you know, yeah.. like they did on the end. And, all of a sudden John Leonard, our esteemed ASCA, you know CEO – everything. He goes, let’s just pull our shorts down, do the Full Monty. And, we’re like John, no.. no way, we’re outside, there’s cars driving by honking at us, waving. We’re like, we’re going to get arrested over here in England. How’s that_ here’s the coaching staff. So, we’re like no no we’re not doing it. So, we take the picture. We leave. We get back. Find out, this wasn’t the right bar. So, we’re like, aww no. So, Todd Kimerling, who was just.. I mean he wanted to do this in the worse way. So he calls around and finds the place. Finds out exactly where it is. They say, come on in, you guys can come on in and take a picture, that will be great, no problem. You know, we were thinking, you know, just hundreds of Americans have gone over there and done this. But, you know, nobody had. So, it’s.. it’s Todd, John Leonard who wanted to do it too. And, he’s like – we’re taken it all off and taken the picture, Jack Ridley, me, Ira Klein. And, Ira was like, I’m not doing it. No way. John Leonard gave me so much grief, he still wasn’t going to do it. But, he came to take the picture, because we didn’t want Dee Holler to come and take the picture. So, we finally find this place. We go there. There’s nobody there. It’s like a men’s club. They open it up. These two old guys are in there working. They put us up on stage. They turn the lights on and everything. I mean, you know, when I got back I rented the movie so I could see what I was doing. And, we get up there, and one of the old guys calls his wife out to come watch us while we’re doing this. So, we get there, and we’re like, well who’s got, you know caps or hats.. and we had two hats and two USA swimming caps. And, so sure enough, men.. pull it down, and we’re up there like this_ and I’m sure you’re going to see the picture eventually. So, I figure, what the hell, I might as well tell ya. So, that’s what we did. And,_and we did this in May. And Ira took the picture with his camera and with Jack Ridley’s camera. And, all summer we don’t see a copy of the picture. And, we’re like.. and you know I see_ I’ve seen John a couple places and talked to him a couple of times between you know, then and now. And, we’re like, where internet. Maybe coming out to seniors. Or to here, and be a big billboard or something like that. And, sure enough, at Seniors Ira had a copy of his and gave us that. And, then Jack Ridley, his camera.. his picture came out a lot better, and.. and he gave us a copy of that. So, we had that. And, actually I got a picture from John in the mail just about a week ago. Where he put _. Or did you do that Guy, with the ASCA_. Yeah.. that fake magazine cover with us on there. We were kind of expecting to see that. So, that’s_ that’s my story about the Full Monty. So, I’m sure you’ll see it_ I’m_ Oh yeah_ they gave .. they gave that to the Chinese coaches that were at the Junior_ the National _.Junior National Team meet over in Sheffield. John gave them to them.. presented them to their coaches. So, that’s where that went.

Tim: Thank you Steve. And, if that doesn’t loosen you up I don’t know what will. Is Ira here_ I want to know why Ira didn’t get in that picture. By the way, Steve’s show is right around the corner. I think the first show is at 10:30. Next up, I’d like to invite Peter Daylan up to the front of the room. And, I think one of the best ways to just_ before Peter_ Peter are you in this picture too? So so we’re telling .where’s Richard? Did I see Richard Quick walk in here? We’re telling Ira and I are telling Richard this, yesterday.. And, he goes oh that’s pretty interesting, because it was funny that John was telling me – and I thought it was at the most recent World Championships, this was World Championship I guess in ’91. When John went for a run over in Australia, and all of a sudden the next thing he knew he ran up .. and he’s at this nude beach. And, it’s like.. he said, this six foot ten Australian stood up and said, hey mate, we don’t allow you to wear clothes on this beach. And, John was like_ he just pulled_ just pulled his shorts down.. and started running. And, I’m like_. Wait a minute_ now what is this guy doing now. I kind of wonder about our_ I don’t think John’s here yet. Peter Daylan, most of you know Peter. I always enjoy being around this_ this gentleman and listening to him. I think he’s one of the true mentors that.. that has been through this sport and that we had, and is still visible. And, I appreciate having him here. Thanks Peter.

Peter: I enjoyed that last story. But, I have two little short tails to give you. How many of you have heard of George Haynes, raise your hands. Alright, how many have heard of Matt Man of Michigan. Well, that’s good. ‘Cause they’re the people in the first story. This was.. this took place in Kentucky, Louisville. And, there was a local meet there. It was during the early war years. And, Matt Man who was a very prestigious figure all over America, particularly in the middle west. He brought his Michigan boys down to this meet in Louisville. George Haynes was about a fifteen or sixteen year old kid, swimming out of Huntington Y, for a guy named Glenn Hummer, who was a very successful coach in that area. And, they_ all the kids from Huntington, when they got there, they knew that Matt Man of Michigan and his famous swimmers where there. George was entered in the 1500 meters. And, he got up and swam his race, and swam pretty well. And, he was feeling good about it. And, when he got out of the pool, Matt Man said, young man, would you come over here. So, George with great pride and little embarrassment walked over. He said, you swim awfully well. George had a big smile on his face. He said, the only small problem you have, is you stay in the same place for too long. Now, this story was told by George himself. So, I know it’s authentic. Matt is long gone, so I can’t check with him. The second story, is another little short one. Because in brevity there’s some advantage. And, this one had to do with James ‘Doc’ Councilman. He at that point had just left Speedo. And, we being sponsored by Adolph Keifer, who had pretty good bathing suits then. And, Keifer was having a reception at this particular convention, or whatever it was. And, Bill Lee, the head man for Speedo and a guy named George Pearson and I were together. And, I said guys, let’s go to Adolph’s reception. I mean, these are always open, everybody’s welcomed. And, Bill Lee was very hesitant. He said, well, I’d really like to go, but I don’t think a competitor should walk into a reception that Adolph is paying for. I said, no he’s a big man, Bill, and he doesn’t think in such petty terms. So, we went to the reception. And, we_ and here all at the reception was Doc, because Adolph had just plucked him from Speedo, and he was sort of showing off Doc and featuring him to all the neutral people. So, they would be interested in making Keifer purchases. Doc at that point had a very distinctive hat. It was a Sherlock Holmes type of cap. You’ve probably seen them around. And, one of his former managers is smiling at me, ‘cause he remembers the hat itself. You do, don’t you Bob. Yes he does. Well, after we’d worn out our welcome. Bill was very nervous, he said, you know we really ought to get out of here. And, so we headed out the door, and as we walked past the_ just before we went out the door, there was a little cloak stand, and there was Doc’s hat. Now, I recognized it. We were bitter rivals at the time. But, I knew what his hat looked like. And, so George who was a very daring sort of a guy, he was a managerial type. And, he just picked up the hat. As we got out the door, he put the hat on Bill Lee’s head. He said, you know Bill, you look great with that. Bill didn’t know it was Doc’s hat. George knew and I knew. And, we were starting to really enjoy this. I mean, here we had gone to this party, featuring Doc, put on by Keifer. And, here’s Bill Lee wearing Doc’s hat, going out of the place. Well, we were out there sort of laughing about this and that. And, we still hadn’t told Bill. Out comes Jim Councilman. And, he looked at Bill, said Hi Bill. He wanted to still be friendly with the old sponsor. He said, as a matter of fact, you look great in the hat, and it’s just like one that I have. I think it’s time for another speaker.

Tim: Thank you Peter. Mike Parado from Sea Coast. One of the finest Club Coaches that we have in the country today.

Mike: Hi. I have two stories that happened at the ASCA clinic. One was about three years ago. My wife and I were speaking. And, I always try to do the professional thing, teaching the administration course, which I did this week also. And, what happened was, I’m always trying to be professional, because I listened to what Coach Daylan says, and what John tells us.And,thisis what I looked like most of the year, this is what I prefer to be in – as far as clothing. But, on that particular day, I had my suit coat on, my tie, I had all the papers I needed, I had my brief case, which I normally wouldn’t do at home. And, as I was getting ready to go out the door that morning, I was fumbling around with my books and things I needed. We had a one year old and four year old with us: our daughters. And, our four year old says to my wife, Mom, where’s Dad going? She says, well he’s going to do a talk, and we’ll catch up with him later. And, as I’m walking out the door, I hear her say to my wife, WOW, Dad looks like he has a real job. It’s a_ hard reality. The second ASCA story .. and some of you might have been there. And, this is not about anybody I know, or remember. In 1985 the ASCA clinic was in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. And, I was a young coach, I .. as a matter of fact it was my third year_ third time going to the ASCA clinic. And, it was in beautiful Ft. Lauderdale. And, the first talk was an introduction by Coach Jack Nelson. And, Coach Nelson promised us that we would see and would hear things that we had never seen and heard before. And, it would be an exciting clinic. And, he was absolutely right. The week was tremendous, the talks were great. And on.. and I remembered that.. I remembered what he said. And, every time I’m at a talk, I said, WOW he was right, this is just great. I’m learning a whole lot. I love being here. On the last day of the clinic, we got a little break in the afternoon. And, a lot of coaches made it to the beach. The hotel was right on the beach and we just_ there was about two hundred coaches on the beach. And, there was one coach that was out in the surf. Not hard to notice, because there is only one guy in this whole big beach.. and he’s yelling to his buddies, come on in.. come on in_ it’s great. He’s only about fifteen yards into the surf. And, in Ft. Lauderdale it goes down right away. And, he was quite _it was quite deep actually for fifteen yards. And, all of a sudden, after all of this yelling, ‘cause we noticed this, you can’t help but notice it. These five guys sprint into the water. And, there’s _ it looks like it’s a football scrimmage, and there’s all this splashing going on. And, these five guys come out, and the guy that was yelling for them, is still in the water. So, what we all notice on the beach, you know, is all this racket, the five guys had his suit. They put it on a post about twenty yards off shore. And, now they’re yelling to him. Come on out_ come on out. The whole beach is checking this out, and after a while he knew that they were not going to give this back. And, he didn’t jog, he didn’t sprint, he just walked out, and we saw things, we’ve never seen and we heard cat calls from the women coaches I’ve never heard before. And, that’s my story.. the two ASCA stories.

Tim: Next up we have Bob Goseth, from Northwestern.

Bob: Thank you. I thought I’d tell another Doc Councilman story, since many of you haven’t got a chance to see Doc in action. So, this is 1962, I’m a manager at Indiana University, my first year there. And, we’re going down to Ft. Lauderdale for the training down there over Christmas. And, I get a call from the guy that’s the head of the motor pool. And, about the end of November. And, he says, _ he says_ are you Bob Goseth? And I said, yes I am. And, he says, you’re the manager of the swimming team? And, I said, well, yeah, I am. He says, I want you to take care of all the cars that are going down this year to Ft. Lauderdale. I can’t let Doc handle it. And, I said, well, why not, you know? And, he said, well, he said, I’ll have to explain it.. you’ll have to have Doc explain it to ya. So, I went to talk to Doc. And, it seems like the year before they went down to Ft. Lauderdale and they took three cars down and they came back with two. And, they just turned the two cars in, and didn’t offer any explanation. And, Doc had such a reputation, that the guy at the motor pool didn’t want to question him about it. So, I said, Doc, what happened. And, he said.. you know.. this guy called me about the cars_ He said, Oh yeah.. I forgot about that. Doc had an unbelievable.. he could forget things. They went down with three cars, OK. One of the cars broke down. So, they took it into the shop and the guy says this engine’s no good. And, then a couple days later, one of the other cars broke down. So, they just took the engine out of the one car, and put it in the other car. And, they drove the two cars back. And, Doc drops the cars off, never says anything. And it_ and so he says_yeah, I forgot to tell him we did that. Alright, so that just gives you another side of the scientist Doc story.

Tim: Thanks Bob. Next up, Tom Weltchek, Lake Oswego, and Louis and Clark College.

Tom: I guess the purpose of this story is I’ve been going to these clinics since ’77, so now I can address the younger coaches. At one time, I was in that category. This is kind of.. this story is kind of warning of what not to do. Don’t attempt this at home and don’t attempt this at Junior Senior Nationals. Once upon a time down in Florida, at a National meet, I had one swimmer down there. And, we decided coming.. flying down from New Jersey, that it would be an excellent opportunity to stick around for a few more days and enjoy the sun and fun. I was trying to figure out what I could do with a swimmer, to entertain him. Those_. the people that know me, know I like to go fishing and what have you. And, so I organized it so that I could borrow my buddy’s sixteen foot Boston Whaler. And, I figured we’d drive down to the Keys, and I’d take this guy out on to the flats, and we’d catch all kinds of species of fish. And, very low key, you know float in the sun happy day. And, we’re out there, indeed, enjoying ourselves and having a good time. When all of a sudden a unique thing hap pened. If you’re familiar with fish at all, you know, that if you have a little aquarium fish, and you put him in a bigger aquarium he gets larger, and if you put him in a bigger aquarium – he gets even larger. Well, for reasons I don’t know, and maybe some marine biologist can explain this to me. The same things happen to sharks, depending on what habitat they choose to live in. On these flats, there’s generally what they call spinners or black tip sharks, and they don’t get particularly big. Maybe only about six feet long. When they live in the ocean, they reach the standard of man eater, classified man eater. And, they may only get about nine feet long. But, their circumference increases from this big to _ around.. they get fat instead of long. And, they definitely have the hard ware to do some body in. So, we’re out there and we’re on the flats and these oceanic black tip sharks are not supposed to be there. But, they were. And, I have another question for any marine biologist, they say that sharks have a nerve ganglion, they react by instinct. They really are not that intelligent, or what have you. Well, I want to know how this nerve ganglion figures out that when it runs into a school of fish, the ocean run black tips, they dig their nose into the sand and spit up all the sand and surround the school of fish. The fish go into panic and then they sweep through and nail them. That sounds a little bit more intelligent to me than a nerve ganglion. But, I’m not a marine biologist. But, I did witness this. And, the way I .. I’ve seen this before, and I’m out there. And, I always put a big piece of cut bait out. But, I was pretty much light tackle, under the theory bigger bait – bigger fish type of thing. And, all of a sudden I see some mudding going on around this piece of bait. Oh no, Oh My GOD Chris. He said.. what..what.. what_ I said shark..shark.. and I explain the whole thing and everything. But, we’ve got limited line capacity, I wasn’t really rigged for bear or anything. And, I said, I tell ya what, start the engine we’re going to get a hit. Start the engine. Fill up a bucket of water and every 319 thing. Sure enough, you know you get the click, click, click, click, click, click.. zrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr off he goes and bang, bang, bang,.. and I go.. dump the water, dump the water, he dumps the water, I say take off.. take off. Well, I’m going to spare the details, but for about an hour to longer than an hour, we followed this fish. We’re in a sixteen foot Boston Whaler, and we’re just running this thing out the line. And, I’m screaming what direction we got to go to, before he spools me. And, then we go, and we’re ___ and we’re fight fight fight. And, boom off he goes again. And, they call them spinners because they jump as well. And, I will say something that’s pretty unique that I’ve noticed about certain whales that I’ve seen in the ocean, and certain types of sharks. That when they jump out of the water and the water is glistening over them, you get what I would call, you’ve seen hot pink and hot orange, you get fluorescent grays and browns. You get colors that you just can’t go into a store and buy off a palette. It’s really an amazing beautiful thing. And, these spinners when they leap they just put out a florescent gray that’s just an incredible color. So, we’re enjoying that, we’re doing the whole thing. We land the fish. PS these fish are great to eat. So, I get this idea, well we have no.. of course we have no camera we’re just going for a little sea trout and stuff. We can take it in the boat, it’s played its done. Look. I can stroke it. It’s almost dead. Not a problem. Well, how are we going to do that. I give Chris the rope, and I grab this big big big gaff, like this. More like a bill fish type of gaff that was on the boat. And, I said, this is what we’re going to do, I’m going to put the rope around the tail, and just sort of tighten it. And, when_ at the count of three, you hold on to the rope, I’m going to go to the other side of the boat and I’m going to slip the gaff in it’s mouth. And, if we both pull really hard, fish is going to flip into the boat. Bingo. Piece of cake. Not a problem. Well, Chris did his part and I did my part. And, the next thing I know, the gaff is gone. I see a blur for the fish, and the gaff is gone, and I’m looking where’s the gaff_ where’s the gaff? And, I look and about that much of it has hit my bone, I’ve got the scar to prove it_ hit my bone, run down lodged into my elbow so that I couldn’t open it or feel it. And, I was numb, and I just fell backwards. ‘Cause I _ ohhh this is a bad plan. Now, I’m on my back. And, it’s a center console thing. And, I hear this fish just kabang bang bang bang.. bang_ just beating the heck out of everything. Coolers flying out and everything. And, I’m _ I’m on my back. I’m going, where’s the fish? And, right after I say that, I hear this big splash. And, at first I’m thinking, thank GOD, the fish jumped out of the boat. However, I continue to hear the bashing around. And, I realized I had a swimmer swimming around in shark infested waters. I’ve got a shark in the boat. <massive laughter> Another bad plan. Well, I get him to jump to the quick. I decide this is.. it’s time to get the gaff out of my arm. Because, this fish is just destroying my friends boat. In fact, what he did do_ you hear stories, and you read National Geographic, but if you’ve ever been in a fiberglass.. especially something like a Boston Whaler that density of the fiberglass or what have you. You know that you can take like a heavy Bowie knife and just bang bang bang on that boat, and it won’t even scratch it. This fish reached up, grabbed the back end of this boat, bite down and went tetetetetetetete spitting out breaking off all of its teeth and he looked like this was balsa wood that he was just shaving away. Just_ hacked away at this boat. In fact, later on when I returned the boat, I kind of said, gee Dave, I’m sorry_. You know, I’ll pay for the boat. But, he’s_ he’s a great friend and he said, don’t worry about it, it’s a fishing boat, that’s what it’s for. Well, suffice to say, once I got the gaff out of my arm. And, I stood up, I started seeing for Chris to get back in the boat. I said, there’s more than one of these guys in the water. You know, come on over here. Pretty anti-climatic, that’s pretty much the exciting part about it. But, then, I said, you stand here. And, I gave him the gaff, and then I went in the back, and waited_.waited .. and what I said, is.. we’re not going stick the gaff into this fish’s mouth again. I already know that, that is not a good thing. What I’m going to do is that I’m going to like wrap the rope around its tail, and then I’m going to run around the transit twice to hold it, and hopefully in all these shenanigans he’ll flip himself out of the boat. I’ll let go of the rope, we loose the rope. We lose the shark. And, we go home safely. And, in fact, I don’t whether the shark was reading my mind or what have you. But, that’s exactly what he did. But, I have to admit, that the whole time I was thinking, Oh My GOD, I’ve killed one of my swimmers. So, that’s my story. Do not do this at National meets. Go to a movie.

Tim: Tom knows a lot of fish stories. That’s one of the better ones. And, I think he told the truth on this one. You should have used the Doc Councilman theory, just left the boat out there, and not return it. Might have got away with it. From the shark infested waters of Australia, our esteemed colleague from Australia, sort of a counterpart to our Peter Daylan, Forbes Carlyle has _ is going to share a short story with us. Forbes come on up. Please welcome Forbes.

Forbes: Thanks Tim. Tim asked me if I would like to tell a story. And, first I said, aww no I can’t think of any. And, then I sat there for a while, and I could think of some. And, Doc Councilman’s been mentioned, I got a few stories to tell there too. Because in 1965 we accepted an invitation, my wife and I to stay with Doc Councilman, on sort of a scholarship for six months. It was our winter in Australia. And, we had sort of time off then. And, it was a great experience. Experiencing Doc, experiencing American swimming. Because, we were able then to move around America and we had a commission to make a film for Speedo. And, we made a film called.. finally called Swimming the American Way. In which we dealt with, .. we went to colleges, we went to George ____ , and to Peter Daylan. Ohh, we just went all over, from one coast to the other. Swim schools and so on. And, they were all in this film. If you’d like to see it, you’ll see it tomorrow night, I think it’s at 7:30. We’re sharing some historical films. And, that’s one of them. And, some of you may recognize yourself, or people you know. Just before I get on to Doc Councilman, let me tell you_ it’s not such a funny story really. But, it involved me in my very early days, I think I was still at the University. And, you had .. they wanted people to go out in the country and teach people to swim. I didn’t know too much about teaching people to swim. But, we had a system, you know you stand out of the water and you do sort of a beginners crawl_ a beginners underwater stroke and you teach people to kick on the wall. You teach people to kick on the wall. You teach people to push off the wall and push and push and glide. And, then you say, well you put it all together and you can swim. And, I had an adult group. Very elderly gentlemen, older than me. And, and he went off and started to do this thing. And, suddenly, one was missing. And, it was him. I dived in in a panic and I swear to this day, that there he was, ten feet under the water going through the movements. When we first saw Doc, in Indiana, in Bloomington. He took us for a meal at the reflectory. And, you know, and I mean we had Ceasers salad. And, I just picked up my fork and looked up and Doc had finished his. He must be the fastest eater that I .. we had ever experienced. We had some wonderful experiences_ expressions, you know. Talk about types weren’t doing a job. Types that retired on the job. I’ll never forget that expression, and I use it so often with people that don’t types seem to be working that well. A funny thing happened, he was very keen on me, that, but those were the days when he was describing the pool. That was before the Bernoulli’s theorem, and so on. But, the pool. And, he had some films. And, one of those films I’ve still got a home somewhere in a pile this high. And, it was taken in the old quarry. Where you could see the reeds in the quarry, before they had the Royal Pool, before they had any pool, as far as I can see. Anyway, here he had his people swimming. And, they were doing this in such an exaggerated way, it was just incredible. Here they were, making this as safe, really incredible, quite bazaar because here they were making it religiously safe for, and it was the early days of recognizing that in fact the arms don’t go straight in the pool. Because you know Americans use to try to do that, use a long lever_ strong here.. long lever – more power. So, they use to __ with a straight arm. And, goodness, swimmers, American swimmers were doing that, 1954 -’55, they were swimming with straight arms, many of them. Backstroke particularly, I think Adolph Keifer swam with a back straight arm. Bill, Dick ___ was that. Finally. Finally, we went to ___ Iowa, for the National Indoor. ___ Snyder was this high by the side of the roads. So, he said, hop in the car I want you.. I have to go down town. He had the car from here to that wall and_ so I threw him the keys, I got in. Didn’t explain with the eyes on the road it becomes very dangerous. I got to the intersection and just slithered nicely right to the opposite corner, right _ and fortunately escaped with my life, when there was nothing else around. But, going home, that was the exciting part. I think it must have been all of nine people in this car, maybe twelve. But, Ursula, my wife and I were in the back seat, they made room for us, through somebody off the car.. heard___ went down from car to car to car, then he had to get the bus home. But, I only found that out today, first I ever knew of it. Anyway, we were sleeping through the night as we went through to Bloomington. And, so help me, we wake up with a great start, because he went into a three hundred and sixty degree spin. And, we were going along in the middle of the night, and I swear he finished up facing exactly the same way, quite ___ just drive on, and said, oh must have been a stone in the road. Thank you.

Tim: Thank you Forbes. We are fortunate to have you here with us. Next, one of our female colleagues, Barbara Reef, which is now with Team Greenville.

Barbara: Yeah, I’m a damn Buckeye that just moved to the south and it’s a whole cultural experience for me. And, I feel like this is late night and we’re supposed to_ and Tim came up to me and he goes, you know I want you to speak, you got any stories? I’m thinking, OK, well, it’s going to have to be stories that you tell later in the evening. So, let’s see, Monty walked in.. so one time Carol and I, one of my best friends in college, we decided that.. since I’m one of the few females, I thought I could_ we did flash cards to guys as they walked in ‘cause they were swimming after a meet. They were getting in and we were flashing. But, flashing .. flashing diving cards. My first at coaching, I swam all the way from seven to college and I was sick of swimming as probably many of you might have been. So, I was a buyer for a department store. And, I ran into my old swim coach at college, and he said, I got this age group position with Dayton Raiders open. I said, fine, I was wanting to get out of the line of work, buying and took this coaching job. So, I’m still trying to make this introduction into coaching. And, one of the mom’s comes up to me, because first of all parents weren’t allowed on the deck. One of the Mom’s comes up to me, Mrs. Harvey, and goes, my son’s having a real tough time relating to you, ‘cause you don’t throw kick boards. And, I’m thinking throwing kick boards, is that a part of this? So, I’d stay after and I’d try work on my kick board thing, and I think that’s one way I’m going to relate to John Harvey. But, I found out that John .. John related in many ways. All of a sudden, Steve Vergolia’s mother comes running in on deck.. And, she’s like Barb_ Barb you will not believe what John Harvey just did to my son’s clothes. He just pissed on my sons clothes. And, I’m thinking, well ma’am I’m not in the guy’s locker room, you know I’m out here coaching. You’re going to have to do something with John. He’s just pissing on my son’s clothes. So, I go in there, and I figured you know, I’m going to count to three, this is the first time.. the first discipline situation I’m having to deal with. So, I _ I say boys, I’m counting to three and I’m coming and we’re going to have to have a talk. So, I counted to three, I go into the guys locker room. And, I start asking them what’s going on. How.. you know, why is Steve’s mother coming into tell me that somebody’s pissing on somebody’s clothes. I just don’t understand. And, so they .. pretty soon, everybody start fessing up. Well, this is something that goes on Barb. You know, John’s just teasing Steve. He was kind of nerdy. And, so he would, I guess just do it right by the boys clothes. Well, this time he missed and he hit. Well, as I’m starting to uncover they have been doing this in the shower. Well, I was just mortified, because you know I’m leaving this business job and I’m coming in and these boys are just pissing everywhere. So, I .. I am just furious. So, I go in and get this scrub stuff and make them scrub down the entire facility inside, you know. And, I’m thinking I’m doing the right thing. So, I go home and relay this to my husband. And, he kind of looks at me, and he goes, you did what? Don’t you know, boys do that all the time? So, I guess that’s the difference between the men’s profess- men and women in our profession.

Tim: Thank you Barb. Guys it sounds like we need some more female speakers up here, eh? What do you think. Let’s see, next up, Ira Klein, from Santa Barbara. Ira. And, Ira is at that show at 10:30 with Steve, by the way.

Ira: I have pictures. Actually, wait, I’ve got to take my jacket off for this one. Too many stories, not enough time. This is about ’86 I think, ’87, and I don’t see Sherwood here, but Mike’s back there. Pat’s back there, he was there. They_ where did you call the meet, the Eastern States Eastern Swim.. it was a meet at Dynamo’s Pool, once you know the pool, if you don’t, it’s right up the road here. If you want to go visit. And, the teams were rated from all over. Ten teams, it’s a ten lane pool. And, we had this young man, Steven. And, he was twelve years old, he was decent swimmer, 2:01 freestyler. And, my age group coach was 321 Sherwood Watson, he’s not here, but you don’t miss Sherwood. ‘Cause he’s six three, two hundred pounds, not an ounce of fat, red hair. And, when he gets upset, he’s as red as his hair, alright. And, this kid Steven was running a streak, he had missed an event in every single meet we had been too. Even YMCA dual meets. He had two individual events, he missed an event in every single meet. So, we take this long drive from Florida, Sarasota, all the way up to Atlanta. And, it was like a running joke. What race is he going to miss. First night he gets all of them. Saturday morn ing is a prelim session, and he swims the 200 free, and he’s fine. And, he misses the 100 fly. And, so Sherwood just goes off on him. And, he tells him if you miss another event I’m pulling you out of the meet, I’m going to make you ride home in the bottom of the bus with all the baggage. And, if you know Sherwood, you believe him. All right? When you.. he’s towering over you, telling you you’re messing up. This kid was very nervous. He swims the 50 free, and he qualifies tenth. So, he’s in the last lane. All right. Night comes, 200 free, and we’re looking at him going don’t miss another event. All right. So, he swims the 200 free, and everything is fine. He goes in the locker room, he comes out, and the 100 butterfly for the eleven and twelve boys are getting up to swim. He thinks it’s the 50 free. He’s afraid he’s about to miss another event. And, the only thing he sees in front of him, is Sherwood looking down going if you miss another event. All of a sudden, he’s got long arms and you see this kid running around the pool going get out of my way_ get out of my way_ swinging his arm. Knocks down one of our eleven year old girls, who’d just done swimming. Now the starter doesn’t look, he looks down and sees ten people ready to swim. All right. But, all the coaches are standing there going what block is empty, I don’t see one. All right. So, he’s running down lane ten, the starter starts the race, the 100 butterfly goes off. They’re swimming down. Steven doesn’t look at all. He just runs down, jumps up on block ten dives in, he thinks he’s going to catch them. Starts swimming down. He doesn’t just swim down, the butterfly returns, he’s coming back, seeing kids swimming past him, all right. Sherwood’s over back by the wall, hands crossed liked this, I mean, fuming. The official goes over, grabs his leg, pulls it, takes the kid out. Now you got to realize all the stands are over there, you got the lanes, and you’re walking down the line. Steven’s head is down like this walking down. The officials got his arm on him. Greg Troy was there, he comes over and he goes, one of yours? Nope, not going to live long enough to be one of mine. Sherwood goes walking over, and he just looks at him, and he says, Steven _.that’s one of those but situations. And, Steven just looks up. He’s waiting for it. And, Steven goes what? He goes, in our lives, we all do something stupid. But, that has to be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen anybody do. All right. I have one other. Not really, just a funny one, it’s more inspirational. A lot of you were at Nationals this summer. You might have seen a young man, by the name of Dean Hutchinson. He swims_ swim for the Jersey WhaHoos, where he swam as an age grouper. I knew Dean when he swam at Auburn. And, in ’91 he was at NC 2A’s. And, he was there for relays, he.. he’d never made an individual event. And, he _ before the races _.were in the sides spitting up blood. And, they knew something was wrong. But, he wanted to get through the meet. So, he got through the meet. And, on the Monday, actually it was a little later, maybe two or something like that, but years don’t matter – they blend together. But, he goes in and have him tested. And, he has a tumor on the lung. And, the Doctor tells him, we’re going to remove half your lung. And, you’ll never swim again. And, when Dean tells the story, he says, I never heard him say we’re going to remove half your lung. I just heard him say, you’ll never swim again. And, it just devastated him. And, he went in, and what actually happened, is they removed half of one lung, so it was like a quarter. And, it’s one of these things where he’s supposed to be in bed for you know, ten days and he’s in bed for two days. And, he wasn’t supposed to be doing any exercising for three weeks, and he was back in the water in a week. And, you know, he tells about how if you think you’re ever out of shape, and it’s hard to start training again, and get back into shape. Have them take half a lung out, and see what it’s like. So, he comes back, and this is my first my year at Auburn. And, it was interesting because two days after I got there to be coach, David decides to get married. He didn’t just decide then, but he got married and left for a few weeks. And, we’re all working together. And, you know, a couple of months later we go to the first meet_ _. To us, and still breathing hard and goes we’re winning an SEC Conference for the first time this year, and I’m not red shirt. So, he changed to through the year. And, he swims, and we get to the SEC, and the first night of the conference meet they have the 200 free relay and the 200 medley relay. And, all year long he’s just inspirational just in everything he did. And, just his attitude. Learning from a person who’s swimming out of the pure desire that he wants to swim. And, he gets up for the race. And, he leads off the 200 free relay. And, Rowdy Gaines is there announcing the meet. And, plus the first conference meet at Auburn for twelve years, something like that. And, he leads off in 19:8. Breaks Rowdy’s school record. All right. First guy in the conference in like four or five years to break twenty. Wins the 50 free, goes on to NC2A’s, and finishes fourth in the nineteen seven. You know, and when we get home sometimes, and we see our kids, and we’re working with them, we got to find these inspirational things, if not just for ourselves. But, for the kids. Because these kids are out there, and there are so many of them. And, there are so many stories about them. And, I know my life was enriched knowing somebody like Dean. And, seeing him this summer, and he made one of the teams this summer. He went like 22:8 in the 50 meter free. Just wanted to share that with you.

Tim: Thanks Ira. We have three more scheduled story tellers. And, then I know these stories get.. got to have mustered up some things in your backgrounds that you might want to share with us. And, to fill up the rest of the time, again, like I said in the beginning, I’m hoping some of you will come up and share some interesting things with us. Next up we have Peter Malone from the Kansas City Blazers. The man in black.

Peter: The man in black. I think my life’s been in black. I think I wear what people perceive of me many times. And, I guess there’s a lot of people in this sport that perceive I’m pretty intense person. I’ve actually been told that my eyes can be pretty demanding. Especially if I take off my glasses and you can really look at them. My athletes have the great opportunity to see them all the time. But, I guess what I wanted to share with you, is where maybe this passion came from. And, the story that kind of sticks with me, ‘cause it was kind of where my coaching career began before I even knew I was going to be a coach. And, very few people know that I swam for this guy called Sticks Ballatore. And, I had the luxury of swimming for Sticks in the early ‘60’s when he was in his early twenties. And, between twenty one and twenty four years of age. And, for those that know him today, you think he’s tough now, you should try him then. And, but I swam for him in Toledo, Ohio, which is where I’m from. And, in the early ‘60’s they had this Nationals in Toledo. And, Lucas County Recreation Center, and that’s where we trained. And, it was an unheated pool. Which for me.. probably for a lot of us that swam back then, lot of people swam in unheated pools. But, Sticks came from California. And, we didn’t have good pool in our first couple years. And, he had made a deal with this hotel, so we could train in the winter. And, he didn’t think anything of it that it was outdoors. But, in Toledo, Ohio, we all thought it was something. And, then the good times began, because he was able to negotiate a greater deal. It was eight to ten at night. And, so that was kind of where my real love for serious swimming came. And, then Sticks likes to tell the story occasionally, you know, and every time I think about I’m a little bit tough on my kids. You know, we’re sitting there swimming, and things were not going well for me. And, Sticks came up to me and was being very nice and kind about it. Giving me the guiding light that I was going to persevere. And, as I sat there I puked all over him. He was nice enough to be wearing you know, nice high top work boots you know. While we’re in the water out there swimming. And, he says, Mr. Malone, before I kick you in the head you get your but moving. You think puking is going to make me feel that you haven’t done your job. And, I said, you know I kind of think sometimes, every once in a while maybe I’m not intense enough for that. But, a year later we had our Nationals at.. out there at Lucas County. And, I’ve always heard many times, ‘cause some of the coaches will describe their experiences there. And, they put up all these chain link fences to keep the coaches off the deck. Which I don’t think most of you guys understand is that because the local community perceived everybody to be like Sticks, and that was probably the best way to keep him was caged up. And, that’s exactly why they put them up. They said we’ve got to keep these coaches away from the pool deck, there’ll be no swim meet at all. But, I try to take that passion and bring it to coaching a little bit. And, he certainly brought it to me, but you know, bring you a little more of the times is that.. I coached Mark ___ in ’88 and had the luxury of him making the Olympic team. And, _and you know, it was an interesting story, when we got to the Olympic trials, ‘cause you know it was about a year out to trials. And, he said, Pete you don’t realize I really want to make this Olympic team. And, he was twenty fourth in the world. And, there were fourteen of these people that were called Americans ahead of him. And, I tried to explain to him that it was going to be kind of a tough go. He had a great NCA that spring, he finished dead last in all three of his events. And, I thought maybe we had a little bit of an uphill battle. And, these other people were pretty good, this I thought pretty good swimmer called Pablo Morales. You know, use to hold our American record. And, Melvin Stewart was on the climb. And, Mark looked at me dead serious and says, I got to make this Olympic team. And, that’s what I really want to do. And, I said.. so we set out this plan to do it. And, we finished the prelims of the ’88 trials, and he had a pretty good swim. He had gone his life time best, but he had already gone his life time best unshaved a couple times through the season. And, he qualified fourth. And, Pablo qualified fifth. And, Melvin was first. And, I’m trying to remember who.. actually, Mark qualified third, excuse me. And, the sequence was_. and he comes to me and he says, well Pete what are we going to do. And, I said, you got it perfectly. You’ve got Melvin on one side, you got Pablo on the other side. What else could you ask for. I said, you know exactly where they’re at. And, all you got to do is do your job. And, it was a pretty exciting moment for me, because you know, he did end up making the team. But, you know it’s just_ you know a lot of people talk about passion. And, the funny thing was being that he had gotten out of the prelims and puked his guts all over the place. I chose not to kick him in the head. And, he said, Pete I’m pretty sick, I haven’t been feeling to good. I said, well, you don’t have anything to worry about. Because, I said, sickness has nothing to do with this thing. I was told this a long time ago. I said, it’s just a question who wants to do the job today. So, forget about that and just get down to it. Thank you.

Tim: Thank you Peter. Next up Bob’s side kick at Northwestern, Jimmy Tierney. Jim.

Jim: The story I kind of thought of was more of a you know, kind of like I can’t believe that this really happened at a swim meet type thing. I was an age group coach at Lake Side Swim Club, Louisville, Kentucky for a number of years. And, had the pleasure of starting my coaching career under the late great Bill Peak. Who’s a friend of many of us in this room. And, we were kind of a big, you know large in terms of numbers, and pretty powerful team at that time. We went up to a winter swim meet in Indianapolis at Carmel Swim Club. And, this was before the days of the natatorium and all that kind of thing. And, we had a meet at a six lane high school pool. And, it was the typical meets back then, where you had your Friday night session, you had your 500 free, and 400 IM, and that kind of thing. And, so, you know it was after school, starting at like five o’clock or something like that. So, there’d be you know, eight hundred people in a six lane pool. Everybody swimming that night. You know, all the age groups and everything. So, everybody trying to warm up at the same time. So we roll in with our hundred some odd swimmers that were swimming that night. And, you know, got them ready, got them over to warm up. And, the pool is already packed. I think we got there a little bit late. There was snow on the ground, by the way. So, we get the kids out and we’re getting behind a couple lanes and _ and there was an age group coach from.. from Indianapolis. Who’s not around in coaching anymore. But, he was running his group through and in one outside lane, you know, an interval type basis. Doing sets with like ten kids, you know. And, a lot of the lanes had twenty – twenty five people whatever. And, we’re saying well OK, let’s hop in this lane, and like everybody else you just swim you know, feet to feet, and kind of go around in big circles. And, so we’re trying to get the kids warmed up. And, at some point or other, the assistant coach comes over and says you know, we’ve got this lane here right now. And, we’re looking at him like, you know, we’ve got all these kids that have to warm up. You know, it’s half hour before the meet starts, we need to get in and get going, you know. I mean, no one really owns their own lane. So, we get back to coaching, and Bill Peak is standing up on the deck trying to get his kids going. And, this coach takes a run and runs up and just knocks Bill Peak right into the pool. OK. Well, before I continue on the story, you got to 323 know a little bit about Bill Peak. First of all no one would cross Bill Peak and ever live to tell the story. OK. Bill is that type of that guy, or he was pretty forceful and pretty powerful even as a coach. Who I swam for him at one point. The second thing was that Bill was a Vietnam war veteran. And, the guy who pushed him in was Oriental. And, Scott Rowe and I, my buddy, we were the age group coaches at the time -we’re seeing this happen. And, our first thoughts are there was going to be some sort of flash backs in Bill’s mind and things you know sirens and noises going off in his head. You know on the cartoons when like the loony tunes that .. if you drop a character in the water something like that, and they start spinning their feet and they just kind of come right up. Well, that’s what happened. Bill barely touched the water, drops in and he comes out on the move over to the side of the pool. And, you know, kind of an incident occurred, where the guy ends up_ not Bill the other guy, ends up on the ground and things are happening as it were. Scott and I are trying to separate things and.. and the team _ you know, it became a huge huge deal, obviously, at a meet in Indianapolis. And, well before long Bill’s trying to get dried off and we say, look here’s the car keys – Scott gave him his car. You go back, get dried off, and we’ll warm up the kids for the meet. And, so Bill says all right, fine. So, he gets in the car and heads back to get dried off. In the meantime, they kick this coach out of the meet. Which rightly so. You’re done, we’ll deal with you later. So, Bill comes back, and we start the meet and so forth. And, somebody comes in a little bit later and tells us, something happened out in the parking lot. Well, we go out and the windows to Scott’s car, were smashed in. This guy sees Bill drives off, and he thinks I’m going to get him back. And, he smashes the windows and all this kind of stuff. So, it became a huge deal. And,_ and later on he got suspended or whatever. And, kind of booted out of the association. But, it was kind of one of those things were you know, that night we’re sitting back like this was a swim meet. Did this really happen? You know, maybe other than the SEC conference, or something like that I don’t know if these things ever ever happen like that. So, one other short thing. When I was an age group coach, again at Lake Side, we wanted to do something special every year to fire up our team. We had won like twenty straight State Championships, and all this kind of stuff. So, we had to do _ we did all sorts of wild things to get the kids fired up. So, one year we’re sitting around, we usually have to meet like two nights before the meet at somebody’s house and we usually have some type of liquid refreshments to kind of stimulate our minds a little bit_ our creativity. And, we stay up late at night, come up with some sort of ideas to kind of get the kids fired up. So, we think we’re going to you know, dress up in some sort of outfits, you know. It was right at the time of the Rambo movie and a couple other kind of you know HE man type things. So, you know, we’re going to get these big bulky costumes and come in and coach the meets in these outfits. And, one guy choose Rambo, one guy choose something else. And, I said, well I’m going to be like Harley Davidson you know, motor cycle guy. You know you could, you know maybe tell by my size you know, that I’m a tough guy and stuff. And, you know I like to be big burly guys. So, we got some leather type outfits and I got the chains and all that kind of stuff. And, my other assistant coach came up with a brand new motor cycle of a friend of his just bought. And, we had the meet at an indoor facility. And, it was just that basic structure that you put over a pool. Had the big garage doors, you know, so that you can haul in equipment and that kind of thing. So, the meets getting ready to start. And, we always do this you know, fifteen minutes .. they clear the pool. So, Rambo comes in and he’s romping around the pool deck, and somebody else comes in. And they’re putting on a big show. And, all of a sudden the aquatic instructor starts hitting the button, and he starts rolling up that garage door. Well, I come around the corner, come roaring up. Now, mind you, I don’t _ I don’t.. I haven’t been on a motor cycle but maybe, you know two or three times in my life. Maybe ridden around the parking lot. So, I come around the corner on this bike. And, I’m getting ready to roll in, and I’m going to make this huge scene. The garage door is coming up, and it stops right about chest high. And, I’m rolling up, and I’m thinking Oh My Gosh. So, I enter the pool on my side on the bike, sliding on the concrete. And, that was my grand appearance of the night. Needless to say we had to do a little work to that bike before we sent it back to the owner. Anyway, thank you very much.

Tim: Thanks Jimmy. Listening to Chuck Wielguses’ report this after.. or this morning. He mentioned two things that I thought were important. One that the efforts to be .. to bring alumni back into the sport and make them visible. And, I commend him on that, I think that’s an extremely important thing that they need to do. The other thing he talked about was mentoring. And, Bill Peak’s name just came up. And, I know many of you knew Bill Peak. And, I .. I miss him. He was a good man. He was a good man for our sport. And, he was a good mentor for swimming coaches. And, for the coaches that we have in here today, throughout your coaching career, at some point in time, you’re going to be a mentor whether it’s to a kid, to an assistant coach, or to a coach down the road. And, we need not_ we need to remember those things. ‘Cause it’s an important part of the process to elevate what we do and to elevate USA swimming. Last, but not least, in the position that Richard is not usually use to being last. Richard Quick, from Stanford.

Richard: Thanks Tim. I don’t know whether all of you know this or not, but Tim is the new men’s coach at Harvard. Congratulations on that position Tim. I’ve got a couple of short stories. In_ I guess it was about 1971 I had just moved from Houston, Texas, where I had coached the DAS club for six years. And, I moved up.. and I was coaching the Dallas Swim Club. And, the new coach at the DAS club in Houston, was a gentlemen by the name of Skip Kenny. And, he had just come from the Cincinnati Pepsi Marlins down to_ no, he had come from New England down to the DAS club to coach. And, Skip and I got to be pretty good friends at the _at the National Championships before he came down to the.. to coach there at the DAS club. But, anyway, I got this idea from a former coach to you know, kind of welcome Skip to Texas swimming. And, so we were at a pretty big meet in one of the age group meets. And I come running up to Skip, I’ve got an old watch – a stop watch in my pocket that doesn’t run anymore. But, I come running up to Skip and I said Skip, give me your watch I’ve got somebody in this heat, and I don’t have mine. So, he gives me his nice brand new big watch. And_ and I’m acting like I’m timing one of my swimmers. And, when he looks away, I take his watch and put it in my pocket and pull my old watch out. And, then as his.. as the swimmer comes down the pool I act as if I stop the watch, this damn watch. And, I fire it against the ground. And_ and I have never seen a watch splat ter like that watch. You should have seen the look on that guy’s face, Skip Kenny’s face. He said, is this Texas swimming? But, we had a lot of fun. And, by the way I told all the coaches on the deck what we were going to do. So everybody in the place knew that we had set this thing up. It was really a funny situation. Tell ya another Olympic Game story. In 1984, I’m one of the assistant coaches on the Olympic Games. And, they divide the athletes up with several, you know athletes in each group. And, in my group I have some great athletes: Rowdy Gaines, and Sippy Woodhead, and Joe Sterkel, and Toy Trees, and _and you know, a lot of great athletes. And, among the athletes is a guy that we hadn’t heard of . His name was Matt Biondi. And, Matt was in my group. And, Matt was scheduled to swim the 400 meter free style relay. And, Nort Thorton was Mat’s coach. And, he came up to me when he found out that I was assigned to coach Matt Biondi. Said, Richard you need to time Matt in a 100 meter free style every third day of the training camp. Because he doesn’t know how to swim it. When he made the Olympic team it was his fourth 100 meter free style long course in his career. But, he somehow managed to make the team. So, anyway, that year in Forbes, the great friend from Australia will be aware of this. But, there was _ the Australian team free style relay team had developed quite a reputation. They called it the mean green machine. And, they were favored to win the Olympic Gold medal in the 400 meter free style relay. And, in the preliminaries Australia qualified first. And, the United States qualified second. Now, most of you know in our situation many times we swim different in the morning then we do at night. Well, we had our best four at night obviously. And, Australia had their best four. And, I’ll never forget this, there’s a coach from Australia who is very boisterous and he’s a great competitor and a wonderful guy. But, he’s a wonderful guy to compete against, Lori Lawrence. And, all the American coaches are kind of sitting in the top row, you know you have real poor seats at the Olympic Games if you’re swimming coach. You’re at the end of the pool, a hundred miles from the competition. Anyway, we’re sitting at the end of the pool and we’re sitting in the top row. And, we’re kind of lined up along the top row, and down about three or four rows are the Australian coaches. And, Lori happens to be sitting on the end of the line of Australian coaches. And, we’re up about three rows, and we’re down this way. And, Ray Essec is kind of sitting on the end of the _ with the coaches, kind of sitting on the end there. And, one of the coaches.. or Ray I think, leans across to the coaches in general and says, when’s the last time the United States has lost a 400 meter free style relay in the Olympic Games? And, Lori Lawrence down here in front, wheels around ..THIS MORNING. And, so .. the gauntlet was kind of thrown out. And, so I mean, Lori he’s in to it. And, so are we, but I mean he’s.. this guy’s into it. And, our first two men, Mike Heath and Chris Kavanaugh swim tremendous legs. But, it’s about a tie ball game at the 200 meter mark. And, then we have Matt Biondi. Now, this is my first coaching in the Olympic Games. And, I’ve got this great swimmer and we’re in this very competitive situation. And, the Australian goes out like a rocket. I can’t remember his name. But, he built up a tremendous lead. And, _and Matt Biondi is.. looks like he’s_ he’s ..he’s folding under the pressure, to be honest with you. And, I’m looking for a place to hide. Because, here I am, this.. this is going to be the end of any kind of coaching career at this level that I ever have. Right here. And, Lori Lawrence turns around, runs up to us, and right in our face_ and you can only_ you have to know him to understand this – but it was OK for him to say. We got you bastards. Well, Matt Biondi turned and buries that guy at the second length. Just buries him. And, then Maddy Gaines holds off Mark Stockwell. And, the United States wins the 400 meter free style relay. And, Lori Lawrence turns around, takes off his Australian bush hat and flips it across to the American coaches, ya got us again. But, that was a great sportsman moment, at that time. But, thank you very much.

Tim: We just got another one. Come on down_. Come on down. We’ll .. couple body shots there. See if you can respond.

Forbes: No, no, no, this is not really a response. Lori Lawrence raises __ marvelous. He was seating in the front row of the Common Wealth Games, and the Duke of Edenborough was coming along with Princess Anne ,along the concourse. Lori was standing there, there’s particularly in ___, he says, Hey, your fly’s undone. <massive laughter> Absolutely true.

Tim: We have a few extra minutes. We can turn the tape off, if we don’t want to get it on_. Mr. Rabanchek, you want to come on up. Yeah, you’ve been holding out on us all night long. Glad you finally gave in. Sit back folks, this might take a while. Put an extra tape on there.

Rabanachek: I tell the team, I’m not going to bother to come up since he’s my competitor now, since he’s at Harvard. So, congratulations by the way. You know why you got the job? Because Mike beat Michigan this year, and it enables him to move on. So, that’s what he told me. I didn’t have any big stories, not the kind you guys have the inspirational ones. But, I got a couple real quickies for ya. If you like quickies. That took ya for a while. That’s alright, you got it. A couple real good ones. We’re just all swimming related, no politics in this. We just happened to come back from a trip from ___, Australia about a couple years ago. I took my college team there for three weeks for a holiday, as they call it down under. So, we had a great holiday down there. Training camp we call it here. And, on the way back _ and on the way back we stopped at Stanford, we swam the_ the Stanford in a dual meet. And, just a story about what could happen. I don’t know if it could happen to anybody in a meet before. But, it was a really exciting dual meet. Not the score, obviously Stanford kind of killed us. Not ace but was kind of lopsided. But, the story was, one of my swimmer in lane eight, closest to where our.. our team was sitting on the visiting side. And, I don’t know if you ever swam Stanford, they give you the_ the cold side where the sun doesn’t shine, you know. And, you’re always in the shade and it’s in January, it’s always cold. You freeze your fanny off. And, I told my guys don’t bring parkas because no since to take parkas all the way down under to Australia, where it was a hundred degrees. So, we just showed up for the meet, and it was rainy cold. But, the excitement.. the biggest excitement came is one of the boys in lane eight, in a 200 yard butterfly dove in and his suit came off. Now, this isn’t a big thing_ I mean you’ve seen it before. Haven’t you all seen rear ends, no big deal about that, you know. Some look better than others. But, the fact is he just got bashed on three weeks down under, and everybody got real sun tanned.. sun burned. And, they could see where your suit is. So, this guy dove in and his suit came all the way down, somewhere between his knees_ half of it was at the knees, and half of it hanging down. So, he kind of kept his knees together, so it wouldn’t 325 go all the way down. And, as the race is going on, everybody’s cheering. And, in the middle lane is Tom Marichow just got back from.. who’s a very good butterflyer. And, he’s winning by about ten meters or so. But, nobody’s cheering for him. Everybody’s up in the bleachers, I’m running along the deck, I had my brand new camera, I was taking pictures. And, I was really right on his rear end with my focus, you know the zoom camera right into his whatever. And, _and so it was.. eight laps back and I’m shooting all these pictures. And, Tom Marichow finishes, and there’s not a sound. You know usually you have applause when you finish. And, this guy couldn’t figure out what was all this cheering going on. And, this kid came in at 1:52, probably last place. But, he had a standing ovation. I mean he was_. this guy took the show. And, I immediately ran down to the one hour photo department. And, by eve, by dinner time, by the time dinner was ready we had_ it’s all done and it was interesting picture. And, send the big one to Mom and Dad and all that stuff. And, so, and _ but there’s a lot of other things that can happen to you. Another thing I could probably share with you is, you never know when people are watching you and what could happen. And, we were in Rome for the World Championships in ’94 and every time we would go into a competition pool, there was a custodian there that was very friendly to us. And, as you know, most Europeans smoke.. they’re chain smokers. And, this guy.. and I’m kind of friendly guy, I always thought_ ___the custodians. Everybody else is too good for them. And, I feel like I’m gone to their level. And, so anyway I start talking BS with him every day. And, he offers me a cigarette every single day. Cigarette – you got to smoke? I said, no.. no thank you. After a while I felt guilty, I didn’t want to make him feel _ I didn’t want to feel_ you know, him inferior because I don’t smoke, because I’m better than him, whatever. So, I took the cigarette, I lit it, and I smoke the cigarette. Well, somebody in the group took the picture. Somebody on the team. And, this spring at the Conference Championships, there’s a picture of myself, a giant picture on the back of a team picture, smoking a cigarette. So, just the story _ you never know, what would happen. You know you got to watch what you’re doing, because things could happen. Other stupid thing happened to me, 1992 Olympic trials. And, this is.. is absent minded, as coaches, showed up for the.. at Indianapolis where I guess we had them.. the Olympic trials. And, I parked_ I went in for a 100 meter breast stroke preliminaries in the morning_ no finals.. I think it was finals. And, I drove in there, and I heard that Eric ___ was in there to swim.. it was the first events_ I hurried down there. I parked illegal in the back, where you’re not supposed to park, in the loading docks. And, ran in there, and I forgot about the car. I was too nervous, I was more nervous than Eric, probably. And, about.. just about _ just about the race was just about to start out, the announcer says, there’s a car, Michigan license plate, illegally parked, door locked, engine running. And, obviously the announcer made for sure that ____ . But, you know, Eric did not make the Olympic team because of me, I was nervous. But, I don’t know, something happened, he was third place. But, he hung around for another four years, thank GOD. And, he made it the next time. And, now talking about US swimming and the alumni association. Eric is the one who is responsible to _ get in touch with all the alumni’s so we can have a great alumni group for US swimming. So, he’s still around. Had he made the Olympic team 1992, he’s probably gone by now, forgotten. So, he’s still around and doing something in swimming. And, my last short story is about Peter Daylan and back there in the corner. Peter, one of the greatest coach in America, or in the world. As_ and every time I see Mr. Daylan, as I use to call him, with great respect. And_ and one memory I have of Peter is that he was the greatest technician. He was the greatest coach. He was the greatest technician’s as far as winning dual meets in college. Nobody could_ outsmart him. This guy knew everybody’s time. And, how to win dual meets. I think he’s got the best record in America. And, one thing I remember now is_ and I remind Peter quite often, since he’s been retired. I say Peter, I just want you to remember who gave you the last dual meet loss in your long career. And, that was the University of Michigan. So, I want Peter to remember the University of Michigan for a long time. Hopefully, he’ll put us in the book he’s been writing for the last thirty five years. And, I hope he can_ <massive laughter> somewhere in his book I hope_ we’ll go in one of the chapters. Thank you for the attention. And, that’s all I have to say.

Tim: The Coach always has an interesting spin on some tails. His photography collection will be on display after Ira and Steve’s dance at 10:45. Are there any other volunteers? Yes,.. Dick.. come on up.. Dick will go after_ this gentleman here. I’m sorry, I don’t know you. Adolman.

Mike Dolman: I’m Mike Dolman from Texas. And, I have no claim to coaching fame. Paul Harvey, might title this: a coaching the coach, or the untold story. Doc was a good friend of mine. We swam Masters in the same age group, and also I have another good friend in Corpus Christi, who has the _ who had the record for swimming the English Channel, nine times at this particular time. When Doc expressed the desire to train and swim the English Channel, I told him about Tom Hexel. And, on a three way telephone call, I got Tom and Doc together and Tom coached Doc over the telephone to train for being the oldest person to ever swim the English Channel. Tom had a_ a training regime that he went through. He ate a hand of bananas every day while he was training for the Channel. And, after Doc had gotten into training for the Channel.. .. a couple of months I talked to him on the phone and asked him how it was going. And he said, well, he was beginning to start feeling like a monkey and was.. didn’t know if he could continue eating any more bananas.

Tim: Thank you Mike. Dick ____.

Dick: First, something serious, I went to visit Doc three times this summer. And, he’s in pretty bad shape. The first time I went in to see him, he was kind of curled up on his side, because he has trouble with all his joints. And, he gave no.. no sign of recognition, we tried to talk to him. He gave no signs of recognition at all. And, then when Marge and I were leaving, I .. we said good bye. And, he said, goodbye and drive carefully. And, I was in a hurry at that time to get where I was going. So, the next time I came back I spent a little more time. And, he can talk. And, he’ll converse. But, it’s really sad. His own son and daughter who live in Bloomington won’t visit him, because it hurts them so much. And, he really appreciates people come to see him. And, some of the swimmers have. And, I know he’d appreciate it. Get on.. Chuck Warner made me think of some things this morning when he said that you know, he showed these old pictures of Olympics. And, he said that all of you probably have swimmers who could have won the Olympics if they just started a long time ago. But, you really don’t have to go back that far. Peter is probably one of the few people here that will remember this, and Forbes. But, when I first started coaching, 1952-’53, took kids to the Nationals. All you had to do was start a team. I’d say, we’re going to start a team, we’re going to go to the Nationals. And, we did. There were no qualifying times. You just go and swim. And, they never had a big meet. We had six lanes, string lane ropes, separate Nationals for men’s and women’s, and they swam different events. I don’t even remember all the differences. I remember the men swam a 150 instead of a 200. The women swam a 250 breast instead of a 200. And, they were so slow you can’t believe it now. My first girls placed in the Nationals were slower than a minute_. Yards.. a hundred yards. And, there was only one college team.. girls team that swam.. that ever swam in the Nationals in those days, and that was Purdue University. They had the Lafayette swim club. And, it was several years after I was coaching, they had an amazing 400 yard free style relay. They broke four minutes. I had a girl that set the American record in a hundred meter breast stroke. Fastest American girl ever swam, was about four or five seconds slower than what you have to have for Junior Nationals now. It was 1:20:22. But, things improved as we went along. I’m just thinking about backstrokers that I had _ other thing I’ll tell ya in the rule book when I came. Starting blocks were allowed to be seven feet high, for outdoor meets. That was the limit. You couldn’t have one higher than seven feet. And, the reason was, we swam in a lot of different open water, for_for long course meets. We didn’t have long course pools. So, they would stretch land ropes up between two barges. And, sometimes you had to dive off the break wall. So, in the AAU rule book, you couldn’t have a start higher than seven feet. We had a lot of different rules. But, I was just thinking about backstrokers. My first high school back stroker that made All American was 1:02 for a hundred yards. Little later, I had a guy that made the Olympic team, Pete Williams was :57 for a hundred back and he was up there, near the top in high school, All American. Later, I had Reid Sleven, and he was number one in high school.. at :54. Then later I had a guy that’s running around here somewhere, Mel Nash. Mel Nash was first in the country at :51, he also won the Pan American Games, and came out of lane eight to win the Senior Nationals when he was in high school. But, my last back stroker was :49, and he was seventh place. So, it’s getting a lot tougher. I tell ya one.. but.. maybe.. if you’d only been born fifty years earlier, you could have enjoyed some of the success that I had with slow swimmers. But, let me just tell ya one story. I took the American team to France one time. I’m not sure if it was when Peter Malone was with me, or not because I went there more than once. But, at the meet, three beautiful young French girls came up to me, and they were very polite and very nice. They looked about college age. And, they were beautiful. And, they said, Coach, we’d like to talk to you. They said, we wanted to ask you first. She said, the one thing we want most in the world, is an American team sweat suit. And, you can tell your boys that we’ll do anything to get an American team sweat suit. And, I said, well come over here. I tried to get them away from the boys. I got them to the side, and I said, they wouldn’t be interested. They would never part with those sweat suits. And, they thanked me, and they walked away.

Tim: Thank you Dick. Come on up. We’ve still got the tape running folks. So, as long as we want to share stories, we can keep going. This is great.

Dave ___. Three quick notes. We always malign parents in age group swimming. Thirty two years ago I started at Melbrook Country Club. And, they hadn’t won a meet in seven years. And, I had twenty seven kids, there were twenty four events in the meet, with the last dual meet of the season. We have a thirteen year old girl, she doesn’t _ this is Country Club swimming. This is not big time. She doesn’t stay for the meet, we lose the meet. So, I go to her parents and I say, I know you’re leaving for New York, will you leave your daughter at home. And, they said, yes as long as you have her at the airport by eight o’clock tomorrow morning, we’ll schedule another flight. She stays, we win the meet. The kids throw me in the lake. I’ve been there thirty two years. Just because of those kind of parents. Second story; they’re talking about distance swimming. And, I had a girl named Tara Descoff, who never made it to Juniors or Senior Nationals. But, in order to prep her as a distant swimmer we hosted a meet in which there were a_ we had a thirteen, fourteen, sixteen, fifty, followed by the open sixteen fifty. She swam the first one, life time best. She swam the open sixteen fifty – two heats later, beat the first time, life time best. And, then the last heat of the open sixteen fifty, and they had a lane open and I said, you’re going to swim again. So, she swam the third time. And she was only like, six seconds off. So, I was a pretty_ pretty poignant thing about the fact of taking kids to levels that they don’t think they can achieve and that.. and have them do things that they don’t think they can accomplish. And, the last story is Doc Councilman and Dick Bower. I’m a young coach, I go to my first ASCA clinic in Las Vegas. It’s about 1974. And, I’m selling Bell Grad swimming suits. The first lycra suits in America, at the time. DiRoth Hammer was bringing them into the country from Germany. And, Di goes, Dave, would you like to go to dinner tonight. And, I go, gosh yes, I’d love to go to dinner. And, he goes.. she goes well, we’re going with Doc and Marge Councilman, and we’re going to see Liza Minelli’s opening night, at one of the big hotels. I go, Oh My GOD, you know, the legend. I’m going to go have dinner with, you know, Doc Councilman, and pick his brain all night long. The only problem was, I came to the clinic, much as I do now. I had a sports coat, but I had forgotten a belt, and I had forgotten dress shoes. And, they’re having a little _ in one of the suites in the hotel.. they’re having a little get together. And, I walk in there and Dick Powers there, and hears this story that I have no belt, no dress shoes to wear to opening night. And, he lends me his belt, and his dress shoes to go to opening night. And, it was a great night for me, as a young coach. Memorable and I did get to pick Doc’s brain for the first time. And, everybody has a story and_ about him. And, it was great night for me. And, I met a life time friend here too, who just went a nobody..who he didn’t even know.. something that I needed desperately. And, coaches have been doing that for me my whole career. So, thank you. I’m freezing to death here. Can you hear me. Hey, Dave you didn’t tell ‘em. He went out and celebrated some afterwards. He told me, he’s going to come right back. And, I stayed up in that room, it was a hospitality place. And, waited and waited. He never came back. After midnight, I said, well don’t worry I’ll have to go_. I’ll go back to my room and get my other shoes.. we were at Caesar’s Palace. To go from one part to the other, you had to walk through Casino. There is no other way to get to your room. So, I have to walk all through there, no shoes. I go to my room, I open my bag, I did not bring 327 any other shoes, and I had to talk in a group the next morning. Well, luckily they keep the stores open all night at Caesar’s Palace. So, went in, and those are the days that I never paid twenty dollars for a pair shoes. ‘Cause you could buy ‘em for that. I had to pay seventy five dollars for a pair of shoes. And, I’m looking for him, for_ two days. On the third day, I finally got him. And, I said, what did you do with my shoes? And, he said_. He said_ you know that table when you first come in the door there that’s got the long table cloth on it. He said, I think I put them under there. And, I went back, and I looked. And, there were my shoes under the table, three days later_.

Tim: Anyone else? Tim Hill, come on up.

Tim: Tim, _ one short story that kind of ties into distant swimming. And, then a little story about a coach that I worked with that was a great story teller. But, the first one had to do with distant swimming, that I wanted to share. Because after hearing some other people_. OK, two times had the involvement of twenty four hour relay. The first time was with_ in Sarasota, Florida and some of the people that I had an opportunity to coach are here. And, they may remember, we had a swimmer named Annie Wheelin, that wanted to set a world record. And, she was an upcoming thirteen-fourteen year old swimmer. And, there were four other girls that she conned into doing this. And, the twenty four hour relay basically was to try to break the English record that was about seventy two miles at the time, of continuous fifty’s, hundred’s, whatever you wanted to do. And, so, you know Annie had gone through Guinness Book of Records and the one that came up was the twenty four hour relay. So, we decided we’ll do this, and not having any experience in this before, I was _ it was a great rude awakening. The other swimmers, Mike may be able to help remember besides Robin Johnson, which I’ll tie in a little bit what happened to her. Kim Linnahand, there were two other girls. And, basically started out a lot of enthusiasm, we’re swim ming great times: 28, 29 second fifty’s for thirteen-fourteen year old girls. We started at noon. And, this is a four lane pool. And, we go on, and you know you try and tell them that they’re going to be tired. And, we get to the middle of the evening, and they’re really getting_ they’re really exhausted. At some points, we’re going three people swimming hundreds. One point swimming two people, ‘cause nobody can really get any good sleep_ Tim Hill: _ one of the parents brought in some helium balloons, tied it to their ankles to give them a little bit of life. And, towards the end what we ended up doing was, the girls said, you know we want_ I don’t know if they said it or I said it, we decided we’re going to send ‘em a hundred free for time. Flat start, you know, just pause a little bit before the other swimmer comes in, ‘cause they had broken the record at ten thirty or eleven – trivia bit doesn’t really matter. And, two of the girls went their life time best hundred free. Two girls went their life time best hundred free. And, two of the other girls were a little bit off, and I don’t remember their times. And, the third girl that really struggled that night was Kim Linahan, did not swim very well. So, they broke the records, was a big deal – there was a lot of people there. The next week is the State JO’s. We go up to the State JO’s and they have the older swimmers in the morning. Is that right Mike? And, then they have the thirteen, fourteen, eleven and twelve in the afternoon. It’s a prelim final meet. And, you get to the thir teen – fourteen year olds and they have the four hundred free. And, Robin Johnson, who’s just an average swimmer, goes five minutes. And, there’s another heat, there’s a girl named Linda Wadsworth, ‘cause I always remembered the name and I always remembered she was, you know, exaggeration five eleven – six foot for a thirteen – fourteen year old. And, they tied in the four hundred free in different heats. So, they go through the meet, that’s the first event. Somewhere in the middle we have a swim off. And, they go four fifty six, whatever the change was I don’t remember right now. They tied again. We have another swim off, somewhere near the end of the meet, and they go four fifty three- four fifty four. They tie again. We get to the end of the meet, at the end of the preliminaries of the thirteen – fourteen year olds, and they’re going to have another swim off. Because there’s only eight going to the finals for this age group meet. And, this time Robin wins and goes four fifty one – four fifty. And, I wished they could go back, I’m sure.. sure somebody in Florida still has the records. So, we have about a half hour- forty minute break before the start of the four hundred free, for the thirteen – fourteen year olds. And, Robin this time goes four forty eight. This was _. I said no warm up. You go ahead and rest and you know, get a little something to eat. And, you’re in the first event. So, it was really interesting to see that. Where everybody’s exhausted, this is one week after going a twenty four hour relay, they go seventy six miles. A few years later, I get a chance.. I don’t know eight..eight years maybe, I get a chance to coach some college women. And I share this story with them. And, I tell them how tough this made them individually. Kim Linahan, interestingly enough that year, at that meet, also made her first Senior National cuts in about four or five events. And, again I don’t remember all the details to that. But, I think it was something that she really gained a lot from. So, a few years later we tried this with the college women. They’re all excited. We’re going to use it as a fund raiser. And, there’s a lot of interest on our campus at the time, because world record attempt.. and I forget who held the record at the time, whether we did or some other country. But, we started out_ and this time we’re a little more prepared. We have somebody to monitor each swimmer. Make sure they don’t lose to much weight, instead of just drinking Gatorade, we drink Gatorade.. we drink this because the girls at Sarasota to this day, I don’t think drink Gatorade anymore. When you drink that for twenty four hours straight, and you drink and you eat yogurt – you get real sick of it. So we go through this process, and you know they’re required ever so often to take a half hour break. They’re averaging about twenty seven second fifty’s. Which is pretty good. And, they’re continuing through this sheer exhaustion in the middle of the night. Four of the girls attitudes are great, one of the young ladies who is probably our most versatile and best swimmer, her boyfriend Roger Vanjoywan – who is at that time the American record holder in the two hundred fly, went forty five going_ very bright guy, but very opinionated at times. He goes, this is stupid, this is ridiculous, why are you doing this,_ this is what he’s telling his girlfriend. This is stupid, this is ridiculous, you shouldn’t be doing this. Well, as we go through the evening, we’re still swimming great times. We’re swimming twenty seven – twenty eight second fifty’s. And, Pam’s losing weight. And, she’s really not performing very well, and we’re really struggling, and you could .. just the atmosphere. And, I finally had to ask Roger to leave. And, if anybody that’s been in US Swimming would know that Roger was just a tremendous all around swimmer, and very tough. But, I had to ask the guy to leave. ‘Cause he was just so negative. And, as the night goes through, we’d had rock bands. We made it kind of a whole college experience thing. And, we get to the end, and we have the place packed. I mean, we have to have people sign in_ just a lot of noise, a lot of support and everything else. We do this again. And, we go the hundred free. We have three ladies that go their best hundred free ever. Period. They’re best time. The other girl goes with in a half a second, and of course, the young lady that’s being told how stupid it was, goes about two and a half to three seconds slower. And, it was really amazing to see this, because I .. to this day I saw some of the ladies last year, they said the experience that they had out of that was they realized how much that they could do in situations where they didn’t feel very good. I’m sure we’ve all had stories where somebody says well I don’t feel very good. It doesn’t matter how you feel. But, to have three people go their best hundred free at the end of twenty four hours, was pretty remarkable. And, in that story I .. I bring it up every once in a while. I was telling a few swimmers the other day about it. Well, I had our seniors over for dinner. So, they’re now starting to think, maybe we should do this. But, in the distance swimming, it’s really about getting yourself into the mode and .. and really I .. for me it’s always doing things that you think can’t be done. So, I would share that with you and I would tell you that if you ever do it, be prepared for something that is extremely hard mentally. But, probably very gratifying. We did have one lady that quit about two weeks later. It took the college women a lot longer to recover from it. And, .. but they.. even one at the end of_ one of the girls races at MCA’s at Texas that year. She remembered the experience when the last ten or fifteen yards she could barely get her arms out of the water, because she went out on her best hundred. But, it’s something that I’ve always remembered and I wanted to share because it’s _ you just have to experience something like that, like any other experience where you challenge yourself. One other great race that I wanted to share, this was in Illinois. And, it really involved a couple of coaches, who are now coaches. They’re swimming this hundred back in a high school race, and they get off and it’s going right down to the wire. And, one guy touches and the other guy finishes, and jams his hand in the gutter. And, he’s screaming, and he’s going owwwwww_. That really hurts. And, one of the officials looks down, and you know, what’s the matter_ what’s the matter_ and, this other swimmer that won the race and reaches over and grabs the ..the guys hand. And, goes well lady, he just lost his thumb_ he said, he lost his thumb. And, the lady just fainted on the deck. That was Bob Steele and Ron Ballatore. And, so when you see Bob, and you know why he’s missing his thumb, he’ll tell ya that it’s really from the gutter, but it wasn’t. But, it was one of the stories_ Bob was a great story teller. So, .. so when you see Bob Steele, and you see he’s missing his thumb, ask him how that back stroke finished _ ask Ron and Bob who won that race. They’ll both tell ya that they won it. But_ thank you.

Tim Murphy: That was Tim Hill, Arizona State. Anyone else? Folks, I guess the moral of the story is we spent the evening laughing at our swimmers. And, laughing at some parents. And, laughing at each other. And I think we’ve also seen that we need to be able to laugh at ourselves, which is probably the best qual ity of all. So, I first.. first of all want to thank very much those people who were.. who were able to come up this evening and share some stories. They’re not all here.. still here, but thank you very much. I think you would all agree it was a very nice evening. And, thank you for coming. Thanks.

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