Shoulders 101 by Larry Stoegbauer (2010)


Hey, good afternoon. My name is Dana Abbott; I am the President of the National Interscholastic Swim Coaches Association, NISCA. It’s my privilege this afternoon to introduce our next speaker.

Larry Stoegbauer is swimming coach and strength coach at New Trier High School in Illinois. He had spoken at ASCA and NISCA conferences before. Larry is quite the physical-exercise nut, and you’re going to learn lot from him. We had Bare Bones Dryland yesterday; today is about taking care of shoulders, which I think we would all agree is one of the biggest physical problems we have in swimming. Larry’s background includes being well-versed in 2 different kinds of yoga, 8 different (I think 8 different) martial arts disciplines—none of which I can spell or pronounce. But this afternoon, in about 10 seconds, he explained to me the reference to the silent elbow—which is how you knock somebody out in-nothing-flat. And I’m not going to tell you what it is, because some of you may have beef with me and I don’t want to stand next to you if you know how to do this silent elbow.

We went out to lunch today, and Larry told me few minutes ago, he says, ‘You know, I got to have some caffeine to get me through this [talk], because the way the rest of you NISCA officers eat is kind of stuff that puts me to sleep.’ He is quite a physical-fitness nut: he went out for a bike ride this morning, in what all of us would probably refer to as a marathon; it was 40 miles. In Larry’s world, that’s being a slacker.

I think you’ll learn a lot about shoulders this afternoon, and am delighted to introduce Larry Stoegbauer.

[LS begins]:
I’ll do my best to live up to that; thank you very much. Alright, so gonna to talk about shoulders today, and some of the things that I have gone through and my team at New Trier has gone through, and things that I have learnt from that.

Just want to let you know that, regardless of what they just have said about me, I’m not a doctor. So this information is research from those experiences. The information that I got was from doctors and physical therapists, and the result from research from our swimmers. We’ve learned a lot from each other, actually; the doctors and physical therapists. And I think that it’s come a long way, and a lot of what they have learned, they’ve gone on to speak it at clinics themselves—world clinics. They are very excited a couple of years ago they got to go and speak in Brazil. I wish I could have gone along to that: that would have been neat.

One most important things: an ounce prevention is worth a pound of cure. I don’t generally try to jump-in and save a kid after they come into our program with a shoulder injury; this is more of a preventive. Though, if they are able to swim, a lot of what we do will help heal that.

And don’t go to your doctor or say to your swimmers: ‘Well, Larry Stoegbauer said inthis clinic that you should be able to do this or this or this.’ I don’t want to hear what your doctor said; make sure you follow those doctors orders. And another thing is: if a kid comes-in and they have like an impact injury, it can be completely different than what we are doing.

So, what we are going to talk about is my history with shoulder injuries, the history of shoulder injuries at New Trier, some of the causes, anatomy of the shoulder, and what you can do to prevent to improve shoulder injuries.

My history. Back in 1999, I was a personal trainer for a physical fitness company that used like a boot-camp methodology, and people seemed to really like it. And every instructor had to go through physical-fitness testing, and you had to be able to do such-and-such. I was doing 3-4 push-up-and-pull-up workouts a-day, and after awhile—with all that chest and lat exercises—it started to kind-of-mess with my shoulders.

So, I went to the doctor—I had what I know-now is an impingement—and they started doing all these little tests and stuff. And I would pass those with flying colors, and they just didn’t understand what was wrong with my shoulders. They did know that it hurt, and they saw that my shoulders looked like they were a little out-of-alignment. But all the rehab exercises on the rotator cuff did very little for my shoulder. And after a while, a couple of years later, I had not used that shoulders and it just had so much atrophy in my left shoulder. I was worried about my future with what I’d be able to do in swimming, biking, running, martial arts, etc. Until one of my friends just said, ‘why don’t you just take a little bit of the hair-of-the-dog-that-bit-ya, and let’s start weight lifting again.’

And so, we just started lifting. And some of the things that he had me do were: you don’t use the barbell, you use dumbbells; and I did tons of back exercises. And a lot of it was completely contrary to what the doctors told me. Actually, let me digress a second: at one point there were 5 doctors and 3 physical therapists in a room testing my shoulders because they didn’t believe what was going on. There was nothing special about me or anything, I think they were just used to people who maybe weren’t athletically inclined. One of the doctors, who was supposed to be the #1 doctor in Illinois, said: ‘What I think we should do is, we ought to remove about an inch from your clavicle on that side, and that should just about do it.’ And I said: let me think about that; and I never went back.

So, basically, getting-back and lifting, and lifting correctly and learning a little more about the shoulder, is what saved me.

So, at New Trier, after a couple of years of my being there (had nothing to do with me [my own should injuries]), some doctors and physical therapists wanted to test our kids. And from that, try to figure out whether they were pre-disposed to shoulder injuries, and if they had shoulders injuries, try some things on them to see if they would improve. And so every year since then, our boys have been tested, and I’m going to show you some of those tests. From that we have got a lot of good data about how to improve the shoulders, and the tweaking with the dryland program. I think it’s really helped: we have had a lot less shoulder injuries. And so also… I think we also have been able to work them a little harder because of that.

Shoulders injuries can be caused by: improper technique (reaching too far and over-rotating, crossing-over in freestyle when pulling); sudden increases in training distance or intensity; the misuse of pull buoys and hand paddles; swimming only freestyle at every workout; unbalanced strength development.

In this [talk], we got to talk more about the imbalances. I think… I don’t have enough time to talk about every one of those—we’d be here for hours. I learned yesterday that you can’t cover everything; and that took, what was it, like an-hour-and-a-half before I got it and I still didn’t get through all that. It was very enjoyable, but I want to try and get to the finish of this one. So we are just going to talk about imbalances, which cause a lot of injuries that we coaches have to deal with.

Alright, so I don’t know if you notice here: this woman is about to kill that little poor fish there. So, here we go, wake up, after I was just boring you to death talking about the history, because this is the stuff here you really want to write down here.

The anatomy. We’re going to talk about: the ligaments and bones, rotator cuff, the large muscles, muscles that stabilize, and muscles that destabilize.

Okay, very important here, I learned so much at that time when my shoulder was injured. The clavicle is a very interesting bone; it really is what helps hold up the entire shoulder. It’s not like your hip [where] you have the pelvis in there. The clavicle is what holds it up, and also determines how broad the shoulders are. And the scapula is really interesting as well. This bone here (so this is your scapula, and this is a frontal view), that comes all the way to the front. If you never notice before, if you reach right up-here, you can feel the clavicle. This bone in back comes all the way through the front, and attaches to the different muscles, like your biceps, etc. So, it’s kind of interesting to learn that that bone comes all the way through there, and how that develop and sets-up the shoulder.

You have the humerus (here), which moves around a lot. Sometimes you have kids with shoulder injuries, and it will change from one day to the next. And you stop believing them, because you are like: how can you hurt one day here and the next day over there. It’s just because it’s moving around, and it’s so loose that the bone will hit different parts in this whole area here.

And then here is the capsule and the scapula. So (right here) in front of the scapula (same here), is… you have your lungs and the bones and the pecs etc.

Rotator cuff muscles. So—you won’t be tested over this, but [it is] just interesting to go through this here. So, you got these ones on the inside of the scapula, and you can see how they are attaching here. And those are going to rotate internally the humerus, and these guys (out here) externally rotate the humerus. They are very small muscles, and they have to, along with some other muscles, fight the largest… some of the largest muscles in your upper body. So, when your kids go and start doing stretches like this, what they are doing is: they’re stretching this out, and then they’re tightening up the front muscles. And these guys have less leverage to help keep the humerus in place.

Here are some of the large muscles that come into play: the deltoid (obviously), infraspinatus, the triceps. Really important one here: the trapezius. Which, if when I had my injury if they would have worked more on the trapezius muscle, I never would’ve had the issues that I had for the few years that I couldn’t really use my shoulder.

Here’s in the front. You have your pecs; deltoid. It’s very important that you notice—and we are going to talk more about it—where they attach. The biceps, which come up and (you see right here) that’s your scapula coming all-the-way-through-there to attach to muscles in front of your body. Sometimes your kids will have problems in there because, actually the bicep is becoming/getting a little tendonitis in there.

Okay, so what muscles primarily move us through the water? The lats and the pecs. Now the lats are back here; the pecs are in front. You might be thinking, this is lat muscle right here—big, huge muscles—and it’s on your back, so if we strengthen those, and we are working on the chest, shouldn’t we be balanced? Here’s the pecs, mostly pec major is what we’re worried about. Shouldn’t they balance each other out since they are on the opposite side? No.

Very important thing (you know, it’s actually more than just little cute little kitten here) is where do they attach? And this guy is not close enough but he is kind of pointing it out (get a little more graphic in there). Where do they attach? If you look at the lats, here and right here—and, I don’t think you can see it—that’s a dotted line because the lats attach to the front of the humerus. That’s really important, because then it medially or internally rotates the humerus. Then look at the chest here, and it attaches in the front as well and that one internally rotate the humerus.

So, actually both of them are what cause your kids to do this. How many of you have seen your swimmers… seen your kids walking around like this, okay? They are about one-thousandth-of-an-inch from developing an impingement injury. So, very important that you know this. I don’t think… I think the doctors that I worked with, when I had my shoulder injury, knew this, but didn’t realize that when they had me do extra pulls-up they were actually making me worse.

So, what does that do to the shoulder? You get a shoulder impingement, and this, right here, is not good. You also have a bursa in there and not just tendons and ligaments, and they all get pinched up there. And I’m sure some of your kids are pointed to that. And actually, depending where it’s being pulled from, it can pull the humerus up towards the front, towards the back, because if your kids are good swimmers many times they have a very loose joints so they can get a lot of range-of-motion, pull a lot of water, lot of distance-per-stroke. So, when they get those imbalances, they can hurt in several places and it can switch around—as I said—from day to day.

So shoulder impingement syndrome is caused by compression of the tendons of the rotator cuff between the part of the shoulder blade and head of the humerus. (I don’t know what that is, but I thought it would be funny. This guy is really funny; I don’t know I cracked up for a while. Thank you very much for the pity laughs.)

Okay, so shoulder testing. When we did shoulder testing, they are done by the doctors and the physical therapists the first week of the season. We actually missed-out on some dryland which I’m very disappointed in, but I think the benefits have definitely helped out.

When can I stop making wild guesses and start making educated guesses? (Talking about guessing.) So, this is just kind of what we felt like in the very beginning: we had all these tests and we didn’t know really what to do with them. And after a few years the test got better. Sometimes the people… since there were different people doing different test—it wasn’t always the same—you know, generally you want the same person doing the same test, so when they re-tested you see if there is improvement.

So, here are the tests that we did. (I’ll click on all these here and they will come up. I will take a second because these are mp4s.) This [on screen] is the shoulder test for power. Supposedly our swimmers are better than the Northwestern baseball players, which shouldn’t happen—but I guess we felt really good about this. So you’re going back-and-forth. The distance that they used was 3 feet, and it’s for a certain amount of time. And the more you can get in, the more power that they felt you had for shoulder testing. I don’t think it necessarily says you are going to be a faster swimmer—I didn’t see any correlation with that, when I compared these tests [the shoulder test for power] verses the 100 times of our kids. But they felt with shoulder stability and integrity, that there was a correlation there.

This [on screen ] is a very important one. So, this is scapula discrepancy. (I’m sorry.)

[audience member]: What are they looking for?

[LS]: Right now… (I was going to let you see it and then explain it) they [on screen] are measuring—or I’m measuring—the distance from the spine to the lowest part of the scapula—I’m sure a doctor probably would give you the exact part of the scapula, right now the name escapes me. And if there is a great discrepancy with that, then obviously one shoulder is different than the other shoulder. I believe they have a distance, depending on high and width of their shoulders: if it’s too wide then obviously the shoulders are too far apart and there is an imbalance in the shoulder. So, let’s say his right shoulder… shoulder blade/scapula was further away than the right shoulder, more than likely we would have a greater chance of injury then the left. And a lot of times, you see that it will be the opposite side of where they breathe.

Winging. (I’ll show it now then I‘ll explain it.) So you can see there that he is making this happen. That isn’t just the light from the windows, he is making his scapula on his right side wing-out. And if that wings-out like that, it’s not stable. So you have a really good chance for shoulder injuries, because that scapula is going to move around and it won’t help to balance the shoulder.

Now I felt that your ability to reach was real important. They are dealing with the… there are really into the functioning training. And right now he is kind of cheating—I don’t think he knows that he’s cheating—and I just measured it where the end of the stick was so he won’t get mad at me. That’s our physical… our trainer. And so comparing their height to how far they reach, they feel as though if they can’t reach very far, than their shoulders are more unstable because of the hips and the flexibility in the shoulders.

And then we’ll look here [screen]. Another important thing that they are looking for is whether your hips—it’s very, very subtle—whether your hips shoot out to the side. (I’m sorry.)

[audience member]: One foot at a time?

[LS]: One foot, yeah. His foot is just barely off the ground there. Yeah, it’s one-foot-at-a-time. And you see how he is…

[indiscernible question from audience]

[LS]: Yeah, you do one for each. And if there is a discrepancy, that it also shows that there is obviously imbalance with the body.

So, here we have… he’s going to have his hip shoot-out here. And it’s very, very subtle… watch it will go further out, as you watch. And that shows that he doesn’t have… or he’s trying to demonstrate someone who doesn’t have great core strength. So when we’re addressing this, we talk about the entire body, not just the shoulder. And if he doesn’t have great core strength, then it just moves all the way up into the spine, and inhibits it: the strength and stability of the shoulder.

[watching screen]

So right now he’s testing to see how far my shoulder will rotate. And there’s some norms that they look at; and if you can’t reach a certain norm, then they feel as though that certain muscles are a little tighter than they need to be. Especially if, let’s say, I couldn’t reach back very far, and I could go very-far forward. So there could be an internal rotation, then they would feel as though certain parts were tight and I’d be more apt to getting injuries. And later they actually have some capsule stretches that they do to try and improve that, not to mention regular flexibility for the large muscles.

Balancing shoulders. You want to strengthen the weak muscles and stretch the strong muscles. As I learned when I was working on my shoulders, if you are strengthening the rotator cuff—which those muscles all attach to the humerus and your scapula—but don’t address the trapezius—which is what holds the scapula in place—it’s like tying your boat up with a giant, thick rope to an inner tube. I mean, it’s going to move around where-ever: you boat’s just going to fly around. And I’m sure many of you have been told by people to go ahead and do a whole bunch of band exercises on your shoulders and never told to do rows or anything that would strengthen your trapezius. So you need to anchor that thing to a stabilized scapula.

Also if you’re going to work the chest, you want to use dumbbells instead of using barbells, because the dumbbells are going to force them to have to stabilize those and it’ll help increase their stability with that as well.

So, scapula from the backside here [on screen]. If you notice here, it’s not really attached to anything. You got that teeny clavicle there, and it’s just lying there against the ribs. So, you know, what holds it in place? Your trapezius, your serratus, (how many of you know where the serratus is? Fantastic. Well, we’re going to tell you where that’s at; I didn’t know about either for a long time.) your rhomboids and your levator. The neat thing is, a lot of times when you’re working the trapezius and the serratus, the rhomboids are thrown in and the levator as well; so you don’t have to worry about special little exercises. But they’re all important to know.

So if you think about it, you have this huge lat muscle, you’ve got those large chest muscles. This is what your body gave you to help stabilize that: a rather large muscle to hold that scapula in place. To actually just concentrate on those little teeny muscles in your rotator cuff just doesn’t make sense. And again stretching that rotator cuff with this exercise—which our kids, even though I tell them not to—is just increasing their chances for an impingement injury.

So here is the serratus. It’s difficult to understand this… I mean because it’s between your scapula and your ribs; so it’s underneath your shoulder blade. And then it comes forward, and it’s like little fingers attaching to your ribs in front. And that holds the scapula down against the ribs. So the winging that we saw were—what you see a lot of times with little kids; or when I was checking for that—this [the serratus] will help alleviate that. And obviously even if your trapezius is very strong but it still wants to shoot up and wing out, you’re going to have some issues.

So you’ve got the rhomboids—major and minor—and levator: these are smaller muscles but they still come into play.

So what exercises do we do? Main stable of what we do at New Trier is a lot of rows, upright rows. (And I’m going to have little videos or explanations for these. So if you’re writing it down, leave a little space.) Bent-over flies, serratus exercises, weighted swims on the bench, and dumbbells scarecrows. So if you’re in my, if you watched my speech yesterday, you saw a lot of these.

Now you can make this easier by raising the bar higher, so that you’re at an angle. You can make it harder by putting one foot up or obviously lowering the bar, or going to one foot or having the foot as high as possible—so you’d have the feet, maybe up on a bench. And those can be quite difficult, if you have the feet up on the bench; if you can have a kid to do 30 of them, (in the functional training books) that’s world class right there. And that’s going all-the-way to touching your chest. I’ve yet to have a kid who could do 30 of them; I can’t do 30 of them. So very good, strong exercise.

(These are all mp4s, so I got to click on them beforehand and wait for them to come up. They’re the newer videos. I believe actually, this will be videos of the rows I was talking about to make it a little more difficult. You guys all able to see these? Yesterday I guess there was a problem, being able to see: it was too dark.)

So there is the one-foot-up. Being that I’m using the ladder, I’m pretty low as it is. There we have with poles and reaches. (Go ahead and throw out any questions if there’s any questions about that.)

[indiscernible question from audience]

[LS]: They should be able to… if you raise up the bar they should be able to do that at any age, yeah. I would start immediately, so that you can help stabilize those.

So this is going to be one-arm rows. In case you have kids who are getting very strong, and you want to work-on hypertrophy. It’d be pretty good to be able to get a set of 10 of those. Hypertrophy is when you’re trying to grow the most muscle possible, and that’s… generally the best would be 5 sets of 10, with one minute rest. So if you’re in that part of your season, depending on how long your season is, you’d be able to have a heavier exercise—you don’t have them do 20-30 of them—and still keep with your program.

Okay, there’s a couple of exercises with this one, but the one I want to focus on is the upright rows. (Here’s [on screen] is the upright rows. Now [on screen] I’m doing another exercise, and this isn’t necessarily going to make their shoulders any better.) Very important that you have the hands pretty-close together, so that you can get those elbows as high as possible because that’s the part of the exercise you’re trying to work. The further away your hands are, the more you’re working the deltoids and you can’t get the elbows as high. And this is about as high as you can get, before doing like a reverse curl, okay?

So [it’s] important to tell them: to keep the hands close together, the elbows as high as possible and have their knees bent. A lot of times, they have their legs locked, and they have all is this weight out in front of them, and so their back is carrying their load instead of their core. So if all of a sudden they drop their leg, all their muscles are being engaged to help support the spine. So if you can write down those key exercises, especially the part about keeping your knees a little bent, not locked.

[indiscernible question from the audience]

[LS]: Depends on their ability. I always start out real light; I mean, you could start out with just PVC pipes, so that they’re doing it correctly. But it just kind of depends on how many reps. If you can be more prescriptive with each kid, if you have the smaller number, then you can pick-out exactly what their weight is. You could even have them grab dumbbells, just hold them close; or a bar and change the weights. But it would depend on how many reps you want them to have, and that would be determined by what part of the season you’re in. So if you want them to get more endurance and you’re doing like 15 plus, then it’ll obviously be lighter.

[indiscernible question from the audience]

[LS]: You can do stretch cords. The one thing that I don’t like about stretch cords is that they aren’t always the same. (Which, I mean, it’s good to strengthen those.) They aren’t the same between each stretch cord—so you don’t have control over that variable. And then when you want them to only do so many reps, you aren’t sure about: you know, you want it to be heavier. And then the next thing is: if the kids cheat. Which, if you’re in a smaller group, it is easier; but I have like 30 kids, and if a kid isn’t stepping on it in the right spot and they’re cheating, then they’re not getting the benefits out of it. I think stretch courts can be wonderful etc, but if I wanted to do like, sets of 10 compared to something like 20, or something more endurance, stretch courts are a little more difficult to monitor to make sure that they’re not cheating. But yeah, definitely it will put a load on the shoulders and the trapezius. (Yes?)

[indiscernible question from the audience]

[LS]: Hands together, so that you’re working the trapezius as you bring… and it’s an excellent exercise for your shoulders. If you bring those hands apart or you’re behind, it really is an excellent exercise for your deltoids. But for the trapezius, you want to be able to get those elbows as high as possible, and you’re only going to be able to do that with close-hand grip. Then you, obviously your palms towards you, so that would be pronation. I always remember that, like, supination is like a soup bowl—I don’t know if that helps anybody else, those little mnemonic devices, one that helped me get through anatomy class. (Yes?)

[indiscernible question from the audience]

[LS]: So I believe the question was: if you have kids who already have shoulder issues and this hurts them, do you have them not do it? (Is that correct?) I always err on that side. If they already have shoulder injuries—that they come in with that—I just go with what the doctor says. And I believe, for the most part, that my kids are going to tell me the truth. But yeah, I never fight with what the doctor says, though I believe strengthening those trapezius muscles will definitely help. So you just do what you can. Most of the time, though, I never have kids… with the lying rows have any problems. But when you start bringing the hands up, if they have an impingement, you can develop a lot of issues, yeah. (Yes?)

[indiscernible question from the audience]

[LS]: Generally what I do when they’re swimming, okay, I ask them: “Well, do you think that you can do it with Zoomers? If not Zoomers, do you think you can do with fins?” If not, then kicking. And if they’re going to sit around, I send them to the trainer. So, that’s kind of the way I start falling back. And if I can, when they’re kicking, I try to put-in the center snorkel so they can’t talk to kids. And I just say: keep going, there’s no reason to stop. If there is, you know, some sort of acceleration, do that in the middle; don’t stop and rest in between because there’s no way they’re keeping up with the rest of the kids. So I just tell them: keep going. (Any other questions?)

[indiscernible question from the audience]

[LS]: Generally we say: kick without a board. But for some reason, when I had my issues—this is like just me—it stretched out my lats and they always felt better when I’d have my arms-up to kick with a board. But generally we say a couple of weeks without a board, and that’s… a lot of times where I like going with the center snorkel; both hands in, down to your side.

So this one [exercise] is a little more advanced. You probably saw this yesterday, it’s the pull-up bar with the rows, legs are vertical.

[audience member]: How come you don’t have your shoes on?

[LS]: I don’t have my shoes on because the soles will scratch the side of the wall—not that it’s going to hurt the wall—but it makes it a lot more difficult to pull myself up. So I guess you could say I was cheating. So, that, and whenever I do handstand pushups, I take my shoes off so that it doesn’t restrict my feet going up the wall. But I don’t want my kids walking through the weight room without shoes on. Not that some shoe is going to stop a 45-lbs plate from breaking their foot, but maybe a smaller break. It won’t be sticking out and staring at everybody.

Okay, another excellent exercise: bent-over-flies. Not all swimmers can bend at the waist and keep their back straight—very, very important. So a lot of times, I’ll have them go on a bench. And I don’t think it’s something they just don’t want to do it or anything, it’s just they don’t have the flexibility and they can’t think about those muscles firing like that, even though we do a lot of erector spinae-strengthening exercises.

So these [bent-over flies] are straight-out to the side. Very important that you have them hold them shoulder-height to ear-height. Don’t let them bring them down here because now they’re to cheat and use their lats which is one of the muscles that’s going to internally rotate them. So tell them shoulders are higher. And generally I always over-coach this; I say: “I want your ears are higher.” And then maybe they’ll be at shoulder height. And I’m sure you guys all know what I’m talking about there.

And definitely start-out lighter, get a full range-of-motion. Sometimes I’ll actually have them go up and hold for a count of four, and then do some reps, and then hold for a count of four, so that they get used to being able to go with the full range-of-motion and really squeeze. When your arms are totally straight, it’s working the deltoids a lot, and a little bit of the trapezius. As you bend the elbows more, it’s a little-bit-less deltoids and more trapezius. So if I’ve done a whole bunch of rows already, I want their arms straight, if I don’t have time to, or it’s on a different day, then I’ll tem them: you can go with a little heavier weight and bend your elbows.

Here’s some variations (If it pops up…. I don’t know, it looked like it was there a second ago. I can just… alright.)

So, believe it or not, I’m lying on the bench and I’m doing the same exercise. But since I’m totally stable here, I can now come up into a Y, or a superman position. And I would not suggest… I would not do that if you’re bent over because there’s just too much of a leverage against the back at that point. No matter how strong your back and legs are, it’s going to be hard on your lower back. Not to mention: if they have enough weight, they’re just going to fall forward.

So I would have these as well, the bench-fly variations, both at the Y and all the way to the top. Sometime your kids who have a major shoulder impingement aren’t going to be able to do this until they strengthen here. They won’t be able to come all the way up to the top. And just have to give them extra one-on-one, that don’t hurt till you strengthen those trapezius muscles, maybe stretch those chest muscles.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:38:20]

[LS]: I like palm down, so pronate it, well, this would be neutral actually. Yeah, film up.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:38:29]

[LS]: Oh, it’s always palm towards the ground. Okay, so and if I’m like this, so it kind of changes it a little bit. This is actually if I’m lying down, my exercise physiologist would be happy that I’m doing this correctly that you would now be pronated and here, as I’m standing, it’s always [indiscernible] [00:38:47] be neutral. So just I would say, palms toward the ground. Yes?

[audience member]: [00:28:53]

[LS]: Just lying, yeah, straight on the bench, lying down on the bench. So I’ll be lying on the bench and lifting up…. Sorry, I don’t know, this worked about a half hour ago—got to love technology. Okay, [indiscernible] [00:39:23] swims on the bench, sorry, no video but at least we don’t have to wait for it. You’re lying on the bench, you hold a very light weight especially in the beginning and you start swimming, especially freestyle. You can do butterfly so that I’d be just two hands alternating or in just butterfly grip and in swimming, make sure that they reach all the way out in front of them. A lot of times they want to shorten that stroke but start out as light as you can so that they get a full range of motion. I think it also helps them with their over a little bit, that’d be a little stronger in that recovery and it’s excellent for strengthening those muscles for the recovery which is going to help them with their shoulder stability.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:40:14]

[LS]: Again, it just kind of depends on where you are in your season. In the beginning of the season, I like doing endurance like 15 to 20, keeping the weight really low even if they swim a lot in the off season so that they can learn it correctly and I go… I want them to do things very slowly, otherwise I fine it, I’m sure you find, if you do things quicker you get what’s already locked in at their central nervous system. So even if they’re doing a lot of reps and they want to get it done so quick because they want to move on to the next thing, I would do 3 sets of 15 to 20 and then if… for us, we would then go after 2-3 weeks we go in to the hyper trophy phase and it would be 5 to 6 sets of 10 with 1-minute rest. Generally I put another exercise in there, I don’t always… I’m not always able to stick to the 1-minute rest when you have more kids, but if you can be, as I call more prescriptive because your group is smaller, you c an actually time it exactly, know exactly what they’re lifting, maybe more like a college atmosphere or university atmosphere. And then when you get to the power, or no, strength, you had increased the weight and it’ll be lower reps, like 3 to 6, depending on where you’re at and then power would be much lighter weight but it would be more explosive with lower reps.

So these are serratus push ups. It’s got a run tag and there I’m pretty sure it’s correct.

So it’s just like a push up but it’s just the very top end and if you can see there, the pause at the bottom. So at the bottom, I’m getting the winging where my shoulder blades are actually above and away from my ribs and then I’m using my serratus, you know that I’m not using any triceps, very little pecss or chest strength and I’m rising my torso higher here. So now they are actually a little separated which is when you… when they’re attached here, your shoulder blades will separate and they’re right up against my ribs. So you’re strengthening those muscles, you don’t get that winging that we showed in the testing before. It’s also very important if you have the kids doing push ups that they should always finish with that… push ups many times are staple most dryland programs. Same thing if you’re doing wheelbarrows or any of those, you want to always practice that and if anything, I would have them do these before you ever do the push ups so that they can think about it and know that that’s part of the push up. as they get tired, they probably start doing their worst habits as you know. Any questions on that?

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:43:13]

[LS]: Sure.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:43:16]

[LS]: I don’t know if all the videos will be on there. With all the videos, it’s a lot of space in the drive.

[audience member]: [00:43:36]

[LS]: I’m sorry I can’t hear you.

[audience member]: [00:43:40]

[LS]: Okay. The question is what are my verbal cues to make sure that they’re doing this correctly. I tell them to raise their torso that you want to push and get the torso as high as you can. They can’t always feel like, “Oh yeah I can feel my shoulder blades against my belly no idea about that. And I demonstrate it but generally when I say, “Try and push your torso as high as you can” and then I have them all hold it and I’ll walk up and nicely say to the kid, “Can you push up a little higher?” and then they can feel that, [kinesthetic] [00:44:19] sense.


[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:44:22]

[LS]: Straight arm the whole way.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:44:28]

[LS]: Do you guys want to try it? No? Okay. Dana said you didn’t get his workout today so I was going to give him an opportunity.

Okay, these are scarecrows. Now you’ll notice there’s only so high you can get your elbows because your hands are going to be very far apart. This is really good for the deltoids, you definitely get some trapezius in there and then the external rotation of the humerus is good for the rotator cuff but you’re working the whole area and if you saw someone from the back, you’d be able to see it. It’s kind of neat to see all those muscles just start firing as you raise them.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:45:14]

[LS]: Now right here, you want to make sure that their elbows are nice and high… here. If their elbows are down here, it not like dangerous or anything but now they’ve, the least, may they need a little lighter weight or you’ve done too many reps but the elbows need to be nice and high throughout but if you try these, you’ll notice you can only get your elbows so high if your hands are underneath your elbows.

Any questions on those? Yes, at the back.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:45:59]

[LS]: Well, there our therapists didn’t have a problem with it but you know what? I will talk to them about it and see what they think. Their biggest fear is anytime we do anything with the shoulder not going far back. We actually do different exercises and capsule work where they’re actually stretching that part and I’ll show that in a little bit but I will definitely make sure, I asked to make sure I’m not getting misinformation, so…

Question? Yes?

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:46:40]

[LS]: No, you row it really tight because if you are using your rotator cuff muscles for the external rotation, they have to be tight because they’re pulling on that scapula. If they’re not tight, that scapula is just going to move and the weight won’t really move. So it’s very important that [indiscernible] [00:47:09] and it will, they probably won’t even really have to think about it so much. The only thing you might see is that they try and round their shoulders and cheat. Yeah, definitely nice and slow, don’t let them jump in that and this is another one, I can’t see it because, I don’t know that’s a style these days. I looked down [indiscernible] [00:47:26] my shorts are getting longer and longer. Is it just the way they sell it? But my knees are bent, very important that your knees are bent throughout.


[audience member]: [Inaudible] [00:47:36]

[LS]: I think that would be good just for real quick, like the very first time, but I try and get the kids to support weight as much as possible for their entire core. As you get to when you isolate a lot, then you lose a lot of value to it and if you’re like me, there’s only so much time that you get with the kids, so every time you have a kid… when I… a lot of times the best thing that they do is when they’re putting weights away from the football team because they… before they even start, they’re picking up these 45 pound plates, I’m like telling them how to lift to make sure and so, you know, they’re getting a little more functional straight from that. So I, as a quick teaching point like one day but then after that pull that away so that you can always get them to learn to use their core body to help support things. Again here with the, the weight in the beginning like the 15, 20 and then it’s just depends on where you are at and in your season. I don’t know if you I do this like in trying to lift this as much as possible but you can only lift only so much weight in do this one correctly. So you have, you probably never see someone like 50 pounds like something doing this, you know like, [indiscernible] it out that would be like an immensely strong person and I would say just keeping around 10, 15 pounds max… I think maybe , I don’t really talk about that with my physical therapists but I generally want them, I don’t think my kids can think about that there is just too much going on, there is 30 of them and I turn my back and I’m just happy that they are doing the exercise I told them to do. If I make it too complicated I, you know, turn my back and scare at what I see. If you have a lot of confidence in your kids maybe if you do that I don’t see a problem with doing that just make sure that they are doing the same for each side the same number… I get 10 minutes, okay.

[audience member]: [inaudible] [00:49:50]

[LS]: So the question is that to do supernated to pronated grip dumb bell shoulder press right. I think those are good to strengthen the deltoids I don’t think that really help that much with the strengthen the scapula and trapezius and what not. There is a lot of exercise you can do but that’s actually for the deltoid and it gets the whole deltoid in there, a lot of extra a lot of front deltoid not a lot of lateral deltoid. So but yeah, I don’t know if that could help so much with stability, a just the fact that maybe the dumb bell doing rather than with barbells, that would be impossible to do with barbells, alright. Stretches for the shoulders so notice his elbow is bent; shoulder high is turning into it. It’s good that it’s on the wall because you don’t get the elbow or the hand coming behind the elbow. Yeah I’d certainly say… well I don’t think his elbows are 90 0 angle. I think the most important thing is that it’s close to that and that the humerus is horizontal. If it’s, you know, couple of degrees off here and there I’d end up and told anything like that, that affects it. You’ve kind of, release the bicep when you lock it out and you go back now the bicep gets tightened and there’s lot of different things going on in the shoulder when the elbow is straight. Yes.

[audience member]: [Inaudible] [00:51:39]

[LS]: You know, generally when I turn away from it, I mean my kids kind of, like, they’ll look to wherever their friend is. So as long as we’re getting the stretch right here in the chest, also very important when you’re doing stretches… I always tell them think of large muscles. If you feel something in a little muscle in your shoulder, we’re not stretching that in these large stretches. So when we have things where the trainers are actually stretching the capsule, I just go ahead and, you know, you trust the trainer who’s doing that. So if they feel something like, “Yeah, I feel this in this little muscle right here,” then you are doing it wrong and we need to evaluate it. Always needs to be where it is the largest muscles and that’s what you’re working with. Deltoids, prasarita Padottanasana C, you want me to spell that? Okay. That would be the yoga pose in [indiscernible] [00:52:33]. So there’s a lot going on here. She’s stretching her [air ductors] [00:52:37], her hamstrings but most importantly is her deltoids. And being that she’s bent over, she can have gravity help pull her hands down towards the ground, one of the major poses in prasarita yoga. Now if the person’s so type that gravity is not going to help him because their hands are… and their arms are almost vertical. You can actually have like a partner help but try not to grab at the hands and push on the back. Just grab at the elbows so you can protect their elbows and you can lower them and then the other hand would be on the back so you can separate it. And obviously if you’re doing a partner stretch you don’t try and get the flex of the person flexible in 30 seconds or less. I like to say you’re cultivating flexibility. You can’t force flexibility. It’s if the person doesn’t trust you or even if the person is stretching themselves and their muscles don’t trust them… maybe they’re breathing too quickly which is very, very important- slow breathing, easy breathing. It’s important so that the muscles trust the person even. You might not be able to bend all the way over or you could, yeah, bend over and you could bend your knees a little bit if you want to concentrate on the deltoids more than the hamstrings and the abductors. They don’t have to but you’d be surprised how if you bend your knees you can get greater than a 45o angle. It’s possible to do this standing as well while the person is helping them lift. However, if they’re doing on their own, you ask kitters and flexible to raise his hands from behind. You know, they’re not only… is it difficult to fight your own muscles who think, you know, they believe they should be short, they’re also fighting gravity. So I’m holding on to a rope and I’m leaning back, stretching out the legs, it’s all in here. This is where you should feel it. If they start feeling something in here, the [indiscernible] [00:54:51] and they probably know about the impingement that they have and it’s because their arm is going above their head which is going to push that humerus more into the bones, the clavicle, scapula etc, need to do it with both hands. Sometimes if we don’t have anything to grab on to, you have kids grab partners, they grab wrists but sometimes they just start talking and talking there and stretching. You see the hands are drooping way low and there’s no tension on it.

[audience member]: [Inaudible] [00:55:26]

[LS]: Very important. Do a lot of back bends. As I said yesterday we’re a very forward bending society. So you develop a lot of lower back issues just because you’re too tight in the quads and the hip flexures. We do so much hip flexure with kicking and their flip turns. Then we sit down and there’s not a lot of back bends in our society. We need to do more back bends. Here’s the capsule exercise. It’s going to take a sec to pop up. And we have… our trainers do it. He’s doing it to me so it’s… generally you see kids a little more flexible than I am. This isn’t of my biggest concern in my life now to have this flexibility. Although I did notice with our boys last year, one of the highest correlations was the flexibility in this stretch and their speed in the 100 free style. Now that doesn’t mean the transfer is over if you have a kid who’s not swim before and doesn’t really know how to swim that they are excellent at the 100 free style because they are flexible here. But of our varsity swimmers, the fastest swimmers were flexible. They can actually all go touch the ground or the table with their fingers. The ones that couldn’t when we started working with them I’m sure a lot of it was the training as well but once they could get that flexibility and the flexibility in their chest, their distance per stroke increased and they moved up in the next in line of flexible swimmers. I’m pretty sure if tested most of the world class athletes, they’d be very flexible here and very flexible on the chest.

[audience member]: [Inaudible] [00:57:15]

[LS]: Yes, holding down the shoulder. Right now I made a 45o angle, kind of, in a fetal position. If you allow the shoulder to raise then you’re going to able to get that hand in to the ground like butter. You have to keep that shoulder down. Yes.

[audience member]: [Inaudible] [00:57:38]

[LS]: No, unfortunately this is the one they gave us and it is… they’re going to feel it in the capsule. I would say… I mean as long as you make sure that the kid… that your elbow is at a 90o ankle to your humerus. I just don’t trust the kids to do it because if they’re just like, start talking to their friend and they like, lose their balance and they fall on the kid’s arm. But I would have no problems doing it. I would have no problems with most adults who are going to pay attention to do it. The smaller the number the better and if you see kids really inflexible in the chest, then they’re going to need this as well. Generally it goes hand in hand with that but it’s not… it does not mean that if they’re flexible on the chest that they’re automatically going to be like this. But 45o angle approximately here don’t have them lying on their back. Push down that shoulder and their hips are on their side. You hold it for about5-10 seconds. Do that three times per say. You’ll notice there is by a large discrepancy between arms when you do this. Additional shoulder exercises… this is more stability. I think those Arnolds would fall under that. The ones where you’re going supinated/pronated. Anything with dumbbells is better than with the bar doing let’s say, push-ups with rings. Ring in each hand, hand from the ceiling so that now that there’s some stability in there, the ground obviously isn’t going to move, least in our area it doesn’t move, maybe on California. Ropes, then doing push-ups with one hand on the med ball or both hands on one med ball then you’re developing some stability, not to mention that in your core which is real quick. I’m just going to breeze by this because we talked about it and I generally have a tendency to go over. And that one before I did dips and you’d see that my hands are kind of, shaking as I go down so that you see that the shoulders have to stabilize it. Okay, questions? Back?

[audience member]: [00:60:04]

[LS]: We do it after. We don’t stretch before we swim. We’ll do range of motion exercises but we don’t do long static stretching. We generally send the kids down for the capsule. One way, I was lying on my side during like, their lunch periods so that their body gets an idea of what has changed. If a kid gets a static stretch and then they start going running or swimming, the body as was explained to me doesn’t actually know the distance that, that tendon in muscle have stretched to. And it thinks it’s shorter so it will like, snap, kind of, like a rubber band. So it’s important that the kids would get some time and the body kind of, learns and figures that all out again. It’s actually amazing how much the brain just knows unconsciously about the distances between the finger tips, your shoulders, etc. that you could do without even seeing. Yes.

[audience member]: [Inaudible] [01:01:15]

[LS]: Well, this is my personal peppy, then bring it over the top and you see like, you actually see like the scapulas start moving out or they can bring like, Jim Carrey. I don’t know if you saw, what they bring is, arm all the way behind his head that can really mess with it. So I wouldn’t do that but you can… our physical therapist said that you can go straight into the wall with your belly button towards the wall and maybe have like a black or something or go in the corner as long as it’s all in the same plane rather than going like this. Going straight back over your head to stretch this out. I also like this one. You know, like the fingers and I actually point my fingers up kind of, like, towards my head if you want to try this and then take it over the top and stretch out. And I always tell them, you know, we’re thinking large muscles. Not the little tiny muscles in there. And then you want to be strong in the abs. A lot of times they’ll go back in there. You know, there are ways like this but it’s all in the back that’s really been stretched. And then straight, totally locked arm chest stretches are ones that probably aren’t great. And just remember when they’re stretching here is… even if they’re stretching with a partner or something, you just want the hand to go back behind the shoulder so that it stays stable. Any other questions? Tape finished on time? Yeah? Oh, sweet. Alright. Thank you very much.

##### end #####

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