Building Fast Swimming Pools by Joe Hunsaker (1994)       


We’re going to have a very fast paced presentation here because I have a 45 minute time period to present an hour and a half of information. The schedule of events for the next 45 minutes is going to be, first of all, who I am, and we’ll go through the handouts.


I’m an ex-swimmer. I am not a coach. Now I assume most of the people in this room are coaches and the problem with me is I don’t have the patience to be a coach so I had to find another way to stay in the field and the sport and so I decided I wanted to design and build swimming pools. In 1970 I formed a partnership with my former swim coach, Doc Counsilman, and thus we have Counsilman, Hunsaker, and Associates. For the past 24 years we’ve been involved in over 275 swimming pools, over fifty 50 meter pools, most of which are indoors. Some of those include facilities you’re aware of. Indianapolis is one. Right now we have under construction super pools. Texas A and M which is a “dotted i,” ten meter three center line tower plus some other pools. Miami University in Ohio, a “broken L” which is a diving pool with a two center line tower and a third leisure pool. University of Georgia, a “dotted i,” three center line tower; (three center lines is what you see in the Olympics; the ten is not on top of the five). They have another warm-up pool. And of course Georgia Tech is under construction right now which will be the site of the Olympics. We also have other projects going, municipal type facilities, and country owned. I mention this to you to give you an orientation of where I’m coming from. We’re also involved with the Commonwealth Games facility where a world record was set in the 1500 meter about a month ago up in Victoria , British Columbia, and I’m going to show you pictures of that. There are two fifty meter pools in the same room. The World University Games we’re involved in, the Goodwill Games on Long Island which will be built, and some other things.


On the handout, there are two items. The one is an article I wrote called “Pools From the Ground Up” which talks about how to build a facility and some of the things we take into consideration. I think that would be good reading. The other one is “Realistic Pool Budget Saves Time and Money” and I’ll comment on that a little bit later. Next year I would like to get a seminar titled something like “What Every Coach Should Know Before He or She Builds a Swimming Pool, or a natatorium.” This applies to people at the university level, at the high school level, community center, all of that. The problem we run into I just experienced in Arkansas. On a very big project we had a professional, who’s not a coach but an administrator in running an aquatic center, and the guy has tremendous knowledge but he could not communicate it very well because he really didn’t understand how the design process worked and that communication was a problem. That’s one of the things that have probably been the key to the success of our firm because having been a swimmer, I can speak both languages. I can talk with the architects, I can talk with the coaches, I can talk with the administrators, and help make everybody try and understand what the other is trying to say, and how it affects them. We are a full design team, architects and engineers. We do the contract documents. We do the whole thing for the pool. We work with the architects and engineers on the building if it’s an indoor facility.


Now the title of our session is “A Fast Pool.” Now there are a lot of things that can go into a fast pool. Actually there are six. This is on the quiz for the CEU credits. What six factors influence the creation of a fast pool? Write down the initials “C,C,T,V,S,S” What that stands for is the following:


“C” is CHEMICAL BALANCE. We all know that. The water’s got to be balanced; you can’t have aggressive water, low pH, cloudy water, and murky water. The next is the CLARITY of water, which again is that same issue. It has to be clear so that the swimmers are not distracted. My way of thinking about it is that you don’t want to do anything which distracts the athlete from his concentration or her concentration on the total performance. Little things can become somewhat of a problem, and there are enough of those anyway. That brings me to the point. I think it was Barrowman at the Olympics in Barcelona. Someone asked if the camera running along the bottom of the pool bothered him. He said “What camera?” And yet someone else said at the Indianapolis Trials, a coach complained that his swimmer swam a poor time because he was distracted by the underwater cameras. And I asked, “where did that swimmer come in?” Well pretty far back. The guy that won didn’t complain. Obviously it wasn’t a factor for the people that swam their best times, but it can be a distraction I suppose.


“T”: The TEMPERATURE. Temperature of the water is certainly important. For the Olympics it has to be 26 Celsius and 78 degrees Fahrenheit and usually you don’t want it much higher; we all know why and I won’t go into those reasons. Where we get into some problems is if for some reason you lose control of the heating system; that can be a problem. At Atlanta we also have a chiller. We have a heating system if there’s a cool day; we have a chiller in case it’s a hot day to be able to maintain that temperature. It’s very important.


VISIBILITY. Being able to see in the water has to do with light levels above. The FINA regulations call for the equivalent of 100 foot-candles or 100 lux for light levels above the pool. That’s at water surface, which is not a real good parameter because if the pool is real deep, the bottom of the pool is going to be darker than if it happens to be shallower where you get more brightness bouncing off the pool. This is an issue on indoor pools. Outdoor pools it’s never an issue because you’ve got 500 foot candles, 1000 foot candles, or whatever it is on a day. Visibility is a factor; shades and shadows. We don’t want shades coming over the end of the pool and putting that end wall in shadow. I blew a race years and years ago in the Nationals. I swam breaststroke and there was a shade over the end, and I thought the wall was there and it wasn’t. It was two inches beyond.. We always try to wash that wall with light. So there’s always light out in front of the wall; the wall is not put in shadow. Light in itself is a factor.


Now let’s get down to some of the real issues. “S”: SUBSURFACE TURBULENCE. Almost everyone believes that a deep pool is the best you can have and Tom Jager, who is one of our retained consultants, was interviewed at the Nationals about pools and he mentioned deep water pools. Subsurface turbulence is obviously something you want to avoid. At the Olympics we’ve gone to great extents to minimize those currents that are under the water, and we did the same thing at the Commonwealth Games in Victoria. So we look at introducing the water from the bottom, and not from the sides and certainly not high from the sides where we’re going to have a lot of lateral movement because when water moves at a high velocity, it rotates and goes back the other direction creating a sort of a whirlpool or a rotation. Most people don’t realize that. What that can do is create a draft laterally into the side walls. Now in the Olympics we are swimming eight lanes out of a ten lane pool . That is not as big an issue as it is in a typical 25 yard wide pool with eight lanes.


“S”: Now the key, the real one is SURFACE TURBULENCE. Surface turbulence where you’ve got turbulence on that water. We all agree we want to make that water glass smooth. Someone asked me “what’s the definition of fast water?” One of the examples I’ve given is a Canadian lake at sunset. It’s like a mirror, it’s deep, and it’s cool. And it doesn’t get much better than that. If you’ve ever canoed on that kind of water, you know how fast you can go compared to rough wave action. The same thing is true with sailing. So make that water surface smooth. There are a lot of things involved including gutter design, depth of gutter, turbulence, turnover rates, all kinds of things.


The last one. There is a seventh which is really not in our papers. But I call that psychological. I think it’s very important and again when we were in the very early stages of the Olympics we were trying to think in terms of having been an athlete myself and talked to a lot of the coaches about the young athletes going into international competition. Young women who are 14, 15 years old; some of the young men who are not much older. It’s a host thing, where we’re dealing with trying to put them through the Olympic Festival, through the walk-through at the Trials. You’re in the waiting room, you go down here in your holding room, you’re in the call room, and all that business. But I also think it can even carry over into colors and how that room is. At Barcelona they said it was terrible. The call room toilet was at the other end of the building on the other side of the pool. That can be somewhat of an issue when you’re waiting to swim. The room was stuffy, it was hot, it was cramped, and the athletes had to stand in the hallway. The on-deck position was standing in the hallway waiting to go out onto the deck. I don’t think that’s the best you can provide for the athletes, where this is the focus of everything they’ve done their whole life, and then they have to put up with some actions that are just unnecessary. So these are some of the theoretical things we’re thinking about. In Atlanta some of those were diluted because of money.


That brings up the next question. What is the primary determining factor in the design of the swimming competition pool and natatorium? This is also on the exam. The answer is money. Budget. That’s it. We work on this project, and you can come up with the greatest ideas and everything else but it finally comes down to money.

The bottom line. And so many things are suddenly being cut, have to be taken out, compromises are being made and everything else and it’s very helpful to understand that from the very beginning so you don’t get frustrated.


One quick thing here. When all of these things fail to make a fast pool what we do is usually try to make the pool about two feet shorter, and that guarantees that we’re going to have a good pool.


FINA touchpads. I just found out today the result of the voting at the FINA Congress in Rome about ten days ago. Over a year ago I thought how could we make the pool faster in Atlanta? And one way I talked about for some time, and Doc feels the same way, probably most people in this room feel the same way, is these doggone high flush wall ends. Because they’re like swimming in a bathtub and the water washes up and comes back. So we put together a study did an analysis with Georgia Tech in the hydraulics lab with the wave tank plus photographs at Indianapolis and did mock ups of different types of gutter hung touchpads. There was no question. A professor down there that worked with us on that showed that the water is smoother, faster, or inversely stays rougher longer with the international touchpads, especially end to end. We made videos all over the world. I met with the tech committee of FINA, and after several meetings they approved it (gutter hung touch pads instead of high pads). It went to the Bureau in Turkey last January and when they met it came down to three people. It was in a stack of things that were being handled very quickly. Two or three said “Oh no, we don’t want to change any rules.” It was very unusual for the tech committee to recommend something and then be countermanded by someone else. It went to the congress, and it was defeated ten days ago. Too bad. It was no question. We had swimmers at Indianapolis swimming both situations and they got in the pool and said “There’s a noticeable difference here.” You could see it. It took longer for the waves to settle down when you had the international touchpads up. There were two things going on; I won’t belabor this point. Number one, they told me, and it is pretty frustrating but, basically if it’s an American idea they’re against it. Any American idea is not good for the rest of the world, because somewhere there’s an advantage for the Americans. I had a meeting with Omega, the touch pad people, and told them about this in Switzerland in March. I was trying to get their support and I said we’re coming up with this idea, we’ve done all this studying and one guy said “I heard there was a proposal. It was an American proposal. I know it was good for the Americans.” It’s good for swimmers! We’re making the water flatter. What are you talking about? I just heard “it’s going to help the Americans”.


The other thing that came back, with this arrangement (gutter hung touchpads) there’s no place for advertising on the touchpad, Which is an interesting priority when you’re trying to break records.


Now the Atlanta video. This is just the front piece of a video we developed for the interview process in Atlanta showing our capabilities. This first section here deals with this question of depth of water. It’ll last about two minutes. (pause while video is shown ) This is kind of fun because our CAD operator developed this video imagery and that swimmer mannequin is swimming correctly because he took the drawings from photographs out of Doc Councilman’s books on a world class freestyle swimmer. So you notice the elbow position; the hips; everything else. (pause)


This is an NBC film clip. It’s at Indianapolis, as you can see. It is the Olympic Trials. Anyway they were talking about Jager and Biondi and Steve Crocker. This is the 50. And Steve, two weeks after this race in which he took third place, (you know he is the third fastest man in the world and didn’t go to the Olympics), he did a study with us which we are going to show you in just a minute. It’s part of this tape on what happens under water with turbulence of any kind. We were using him because he was a rather explosive, high energy swimmer. (tape doesn’t work) Well we’ve got a whole explanation on this and it’s going on with sound and music. But this is just the fifty and it was taken to show you the fifty. Then we come back and splice next to that the underwater cameras views. It is interesting to note just on the side, Crocker’ s dive, he was the first one in the water, you saw that at the time, when we do the underwater shot here. Over here in lane right, you see he was in slightly ahead. The whole point here is how important is depth and what has depth got to do with swimming ? After this, we set up balloons on a big matrix twenty feet long and ten feet wide in a twenty five yard tank near our office and had Steve swim it. I was trying to recreate seaweed. You’ve all swam over seaweed and I’ve always noticed people swim over it in SCUBA gear and the seaweed doesn’t seem to move and they’ re swimming within three, four, five feet of it. What’s going on? Well, they aren’t very good swimmers. Well this guy Crocker is pretty powerful. These balloons are just tubes of atmospheric pressure on this matrix, and there you can see there the tube is five feet under water on that scale behind. He swam for a while, and nothing happened. So we moved it up to four feet. So now he’s swimming in four feet of depth to the top of the tubes, balloons. And the balloons you can see are hardly moving. And when he would come down that pool, the sinewave behind him on the gutter was that big of an amplitude that’s behind there. And that has another issue of water control. Now we did find in butterfly that there was some movement. There is more agitation, which I think is understandable from butterfly than there would be from free style. We didn’t do breaststroke. We also did a dye test here to see what happened to that dye that he’s going to swim back through. You know, it doesn’t go down. You don’t see it going down seven or eight feet and going back. I showed it to Tom and Tom also thought that was kind of amazing. He feels also that there’s still something going on with depth. But I think it’s psychological. And I’m not suggesting changing. In fact the FINA rule of six feet seven or two meters, that’s the way we do all our pools. But I do have a problem with saying “Well, if eight feet is good, nine must be better, ten is better than that!” People don’t realize they’re adding tremendous cost to this thing and at ten feet, it’s not necessary. Yes sir? (unintelligible question) We’ve put sand, and sugar sand and all that sort of thing at four, five, and six, and we didn’t find anything. But I don’t want to go into that. Here’s what I’d like to throw out is a challenge. I’d like to see someone do a doctoral dissertation with this as their thesis. I cannot find any empirical data addressing this. Yes sir. (unintelligible question) There’s no question, surface turbulence is a greater retarder than under water. That’s why submarines go fast. I think it’s a fantastic thesis for someone to take on.


We’ve got a time problem here, and I’m trying to move on. Now I’m going to start on the slides. This is one of our earlier projects. In London, this is a floating natatorium. They call this a natatorium, and its floating in the Themes River. But I’ve seen them in Paris, I’ve seen them in Zurich, I’ve seen them in Switzerland. They’re disappearing in Europe. They used to be very common.


This is the Sutra Baths in California, turn of the century. All iron and glass. And what I think is really interesting, see all these spectator seats over on the left? People talk about how swimming is not a good spectator sport? In those days people would come just to watch people recreate. There wasn’t any television or radio, or anything else and so they would sit inside there under a glass roof in the sunshine and sweat.


This is a swimming class in Berlin which is kind of interesting. This is in the U.S. It’s an old mining camp. This is one of the earlier prototypes of the duraflex multi ply boards (laughter). I’m also a little concerned about the water depth. You know under the boards. They didn’t have any signs that said “No Diving.”


This is the Olympics. This is the start of the Olympics in 1904. And the Olympics in 1896 swam in the sea in Greece, and in 1900 they swam at Paris in open water. Here they swam in open water in a lake.


This is in St. Louis in front of the Art Museum. It’s kind of interesting. The guy on the left has a slight advantage, but he doesn’t know it. This is the finish of the race. The Olympic champion freestyle relay team. New York Athletic Club. Water Polo. The only thing that’s changed is caps and swim suits.


I like this. This is the spring board and the guy is really getting distance here. Reverse dive, somersault. It’s kind of neat. This is my favorite here. This is the Olympic champion in the “plunge and glide.” This was an event then, and you can see the size of this guy. He had a Jot of mass going for him. Swimming has changed considerably. Competition and the whole sport have changed tremendously.


This is the Olympic pool in 1924 in Paris. I competed in this pool in l 96 I. It was fun. It was interesting. It was very, very small. I was twenty four, and that tower, the platform wasn’t there. I don’t think. The platform was added later. It was there when I was swimming.


Berlin! A beautiful complex, this whole thing. Look at architecturally this axis that goes through the swimming pool, goes through the center of the stadium and on down a big boulevard. Very “Hitlerian” architecture. In the Hitler regime they were building these massive things on a very formal arrangement. Anyway the pool down here seats about ten to fifteen thousand I think. Adolph Kiefer won his gold medal in this pool, 1936. His name is engraved on the stadium wall at an entrance going out to the pool with Jesse Owens and all the other Olympic champions. We traveled together in Europe this spring and I asked him if he met Jesse Owens and he said “He’s my idol. I held his sweats every time he ran!” Adolph was seventeen or eighteen at the time. Kind of interesting.


This is Helsinki; typical outdoor municipal pool, and they put stands up on the right side. This wasn’t during the Olympics. This was 1952 after the World War, and things were just starting to get cranked back up. Keep that in mind and think of what has changed over the next twenty years. Now this is Australia, it was the first indoor pool for the Olympics and the designers missed something. They didn’t realize that when you put a pool indoors and put glass at one end you create reflective glare with which we are all familiar so they had to hold all the races, the finals, at night because of the problem in the daytime.


This is Rome. That is the pool where they held the World Championships this past week and where Dolan broke his record in the 1500 meters. This thing is quite a grandiose development. Back in Melbourne they were coming out of the Second World War. Australia really wasn’t occupied or bombed, but they did want to say “Hey, remember us, we’re down here, we’ve sort of been opened up to the world.” So they really went all out creating the facilities. In Rome they wanted to say we’re back, we’re part of the world community. So they put on a tremendous display architecturally and built all this stuff and who knows how much money it cost. Again it set that pace of the Olympics! This is really a big deal. And it isn’t necessary. Stop and think about it. The Olympics really isn’t. That’s a sacrilegious statement. It’s what we make of it. And what we make of it is very important. It’s part of our culture and our national culture.


This is probably the most beautiful natatorium in the world in my opinion. A great Japanese architect designed this natatorium. It’s beautiful, a beautiful building. There you see the two center line towers, I won’t go into the architectural aspects, but that is marble on the floor, and the walls. Now they hold automobile shows, and tennis matches in it. They also hold some swimming meets in it. It’s empty most of the time. Japan wanted to show “we are in the international community again. We are back. We are members” so they spend a tremendous amount of money and this was before they developed computers and so anyway this is something that was very important to them psychologically and internationally.


Mexico City. This facility, a beautiful facility and after the Olympics were over they boarded it up and birds were flying around in it because of the cost of operation these facilities, and what are you going to do with it? The swimming team in Mexico City was 50 -60 people; maybe! Operating this facility was very costly.


Munich. Again look at how that’s changed from Helsinki. From 1952 to I 972. This is where Mark Spitz had his good days and it was quite a facility. I was there years after the games and I was amazed at the poor repair. In Germany everything is always maintained very well. The worst maintenance I saw in Germany was at this facility. The tiles were coming up, the paint was worn in the dressing rooms, it was really bad. And again the cash flow to subsidize the operation of this facility wasn’t there and it still isn’t there. You still see the same thing. Montreal. Beautiful facility. Jim Montgomery  had a great Olympics at that facility, one of Doc’s swimmers, and of course so did a lot of other people. Briefly as I recall, American male swimmers won a gold medal in every event except the 200 meter breaststroke and that was won by the Englishmen who was going to school at Coral Gables. Beautiful facility. Now it’s used for guided tours. They have a swimming meet there occasionally. They built an artificial floor in it with scaffolding so they could have some shallow water so they could use it for community use and recreation. I don’t know how well that went.


Moscow. Unique thing about this is the 50 meter pool is in one room, the diving pool is in a separate room with a glass wall in between, so the sound, temperature, and all that stuff would be divided. It was taken from a concept that was developed by an American architect, Jackson Smith who you probably know from diving. He developed that scheme for Princeton. It was never built but they saw the concept and decided to go with it.


This is Los Angeles. This is really a low budget deal compared to Munich, Montreal, and everything else. Well, Montreal almost went broke with their Olympics. Munich has those problems. And so when Peter Uberoth was in charge and said “We’re going to run this thing and we’re not going to lose money. It’s not going to cost us any money.” So everything was just bare bones. It was very bare bones throughout. It was run more like a festival, like a temporary festival, which was great, especially when you’re in Southern California. That could be not as great in certain parts of the country. That reflects a lot on where we are in Atlanta.


Now We’re back to a Third World country who wants to be a Second World country. They really are a Second World country, Korea. Korea says “Oh no, we don’t want to be Los Angeles. We want to play with the big boys and show you how affluent we’ve become.” So they built a fantastic Olympic village of the kind we saw in the 60’s and 70’s. So there’s a psychological thing. You see that the First World countries, the United States and major countries in democratic situations where they don’t have a lot of government funding have a different approach to it than a Second World country or Third World country that is trying to make a statement: “Here we are. This is what we’re doing. Look at this.” It’s very interesting how that works.


Then from there we went to Barcelona, and Barcelona was saying “We’ve got to try to do this on the cheap a little bit.” And so they renovated their old stadium, which looks beautiful. They did a lot of things, and they only built to my knowledge one major building , that big assembly hall which they call Assembly Building where they had gymnastics and some of the other things going on. It’s kind of like a combination of bubbles. It sits up on the mountain right in front of the huge antenna that’s a big sculpture that’s actually a big antenna. The natatorium was an old pool built in the 60’s and it was a 50 meter pool, 2 l meters wide as is the diving pool. They tore that out and widened that and made that a new pool 21 meters wide. The old diving pool, they took down the platform and all that seating was originally there. That building above it was not there. They had some old outdoor pool. They tore that out and put in an indoor 50 meter pool at the same time as they rebuilt the second one and then they built all the scaffolding and all the temporary seats around it. It is designed so it can be enclosed in the future if anyone wanted to. I was there two months before the Olympics in ’92 and was there again in March of this year and the scaffolding is all gone. The program inside is very active. The pool outside is being used even in the daytime which surprised me because you have to get there by car, or by bike or something. It’s not in the city where people can walk to it. So it’s apparently going pretty well. The city and the government are pleased with it. Here’s the diving pool. I walked in and the guy met me and he said “How do you like the view?” Unique. A cathedral by a great architect. The view is just breathtaking as you all know.


Atlanta. There are no drawings out on it. It’s all kind of kept confidential and secret but this appeared in the Athletic Business Magazine about a month ago. It’s from some of the renderings. There you see the idea. As you know, it’s going to be indoors; some of it’s outdoors, Put a roof over it. The sunscreen here for your information. that’s porous; that’s a sunscreen. It’s not impervious so that when it rains, everybody in there gets wet. This is impervious, so the swimmers won’t get wet. (laughter). This is temporary seating over here. And then after this all completed the temporary seats are taken away and the thing will be enclosed and that will be Georgia Tech’s natatorium with 4,000 permanent seats. With canvass during the competition so it won’t be a glare for the divers at the other end and TD. Behind the towers is all going to be covered; all going to be enclosed.


We always have to try to take into consideration multiple uses of all the facilities and access is certainly one that we have to deal with.


This is a scheme that we did in a very conceptual way for San Juan Puerto Rico who wants to build a “dotted I” 50 meter pool for the 2004 Games and so we’re figuring out ways to do that. We did a study for them.


Another thing you can do when converting an old building, if you ‘re trying to figure out ways to build low cost swimming pools. This is in St. Petersburg, which was Leningrad when I was there three years ago. I was talking to the Soviets about the Goodwill Games they just had in a very old pool. At that time they were going to do a brand new complex. As you know in the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, they became an atheistic state so they burned and tore down churches and cathedrals and synagogues or they converted them into other use like museums. When I was there it was two weeks before the coup so this was still the policy. They showed us one of their swimming pools. This was a Lutheran church prior to I 9 I 7. Undoubtedly there was a swimming coach somewhere and he said “Wait minute, guys. I think I can get a 50 meter pool in this thing, I just stepped it off.” And so they did. And with the ten meter tower at the other end. It’s remarkable. Their dehumidification consists of opening windows but it’s there and hasn’t fallen down in 70 years. And the reason it hasn’t fallen down is because that was built before the revolution. Most of the stuff built since then falls down.


This is the pool where the Goodwill Games were held. They took me to this at first and said “this is what we’ve got, but we’ll never use this.” We looked around. This is the warm-up in the basement. I asked Tom Jager, “Did Question unintelligible: (ls for a reason, other than you use the warm-up pool?” He said “I don ‘t know for looks?) Answer: Both reasons. It looks pretty. If you’re going to make that flat it will be offensive, huge like to top of… There’s a curve to that because of the construction. The vault, the bubbled water is carried on two huge “I” beams that run the length of the pool . The beams are as thick as this room. And that is a screen that comes up over the spectators. The problem is that what happens if it does rain is the water will run down to that valley and then really pour down run oil at the ends. But if you’re sitting there you ‘re going to get wet.


Question (unintelligible): That’s going to be covered what you’re talking about.” I said “There’s a swimming pool we found in there about 20 meters long.” He said “We never saw it.” It may not hold water for all I know. We went down in the filter room and the room was the size of this room, and there was about that much dust on the bottom, rusted pipes, bare wires hanging down all over the place. I’ve never seen anything like it. Big sand filters. Nothing painted. Rust. I saw these guys shoveling sand and they were in army uniforms. Not fatigues; semi-fatigues. They wore wool; it was July, pretty warm there, boots. I said “what are those guys doing? Who are those guys?” The interpreter said “those are soldiers.” I said “what are they doing?” He said “they’re working on the filters.” I said “Well, why are soldiers working on the filters?” He said “Why not? Soldiers work for the government; government owns the swimming pool; soldiers fix the filters”. That’s what you do. All over the country people call the government and say “I need some workers. Send over three guys with a wheel barrow . Tomorrow they work on missiles.”


This is the University of Georgia. “Dotted I” 1500 seats.


This is in San Juan; it’s just a “dotted I.” It gives you an idea of a footprint and the plan that’s involved. And this is a CAD we developed for that. Gives you an idea what it’s going to look like.


This is Texas A and M, both directions. I thought you might be interested in that. 50 meter “dotted i” I 000 permanent seats. Skylights. A number of pools, indoor and outdoor around it.


This is a pool at Sanich (sp?) community center, Sanich, British Columbia, next door to Victoria. This has two 50 meter pools. This is a 50 meter pool where the Commonwealth Games were swum about a month ago and that’s another 50 meter pool to the left that’s narrower, and runs parallel. There’s your platform. This is a very big room. It’s lovely. It’s beautiful. And it was an apparently low budget job.


Question: What do you mean by low budget? Answer: Here’s a leisure pool. In the leisure pool there is a small wave pool. The reason they have the wave pool is that it draws in the people. It brings in 70 percent of the people in the daytime and at night, which generates the revenues. Cost-wise the whole complex cost about seventeen and a half million Canadian dollars. But it also has a library in the building. There’s a gym and there’s other rooms. It’s a community center. But obviously mega-emphasis on aquatics. It was built during a recessionary period.


Question: Is it cheaper to use a camera” (Question regarding underwater camera versus a window). Answer: Not only is it cheaper to use a camera, but you get so much better video. How many coaches run downstairs, through the corridor, lean over the damp, leaking window, look at something, and say “Just a minute” and run back upstairs, and say “I want you to do it this way. Wait till I run back downstairs to the underwater window and look at you do it again.” Oh, sure, you can have a video camera set up in the window. That’s what I see nowadays. I see an underwater window with a video camera behind it. And it’s wired to a monitor up on the deck. But the windows are kind of dirty and cloudy where the underwater camera is crystal clear. When you figure the cost. The window cost 5-7,000 dollars to put it in. Now you have to have a room so you can stand and look in it. That room has to be ventilated, it has to be drained, has to be water tight and things like that. You have to have a corridor going down to get to it. Then you have to have a stair going up to the deck. It all has to be lighted. It’s going to cost 25, 30, 40,000 dollars before you get finished, unless you have a tunnel all the way around the building like Indianapolis. That’s very expensive. Most pools don ‘t have underground tunnels. They’re built with backfills.


Are there any questions? We have a few more minutes, I think. That’s what I’ll do, is answer questions. Yes ma’am.


Question: What would you say is a good depth? Answer: What competition? Two meters? NCAA, US Swimming, National Federation of High Schools, or what? The next thing we’re talking about is what is this facility going to be used for? If it’s going to be used for a local age-group training facility, that’s one thing. If it’s going to be the national championships, that’s something totally different. But I would say our position on the Olympics is two meters, six feet, seven.


Question: What about a pool used for age-group, senior swimming, not for national championships. Answer: There are other issues to consider. You really have to know what the program is, what the mission of the community is, what their objectives are. And sometimes those are different than the coaches’ so you have to figure out a compromise. That we usually do just by discussing with the coach and everyone else involved.


Question: Have you done any built-in video tracking systems? Answer: We’ll do it for the Olympics. Colorado Springs Olympic Training Center has a built in system.


Question: Is it on the bottom? Answer: Yes, it’s on the bottom. However, he’s trying to make one that’s on the side.


Question: Do you have an idea of cost? Answer: There’s different ways of doing it, so I don’t know what it would be.


Question: (unintelligible) pertaining to testing underwater turbulence: Answer: Doc Counsilman suggested twenty five years ago at Indiana University, putting permanganate on the bottom of the pool at different depths and seeing what happened. And what he found was that the manganate started being disturbed at five feet. Five feet is about where it started having some disturbance.


Question: How much does it cost to build a facility? Answer: How much does it cost’ to build a house? Whose house?


Question: What’s your lowest so far? Answer: I wouldn’t touch that. Because it depends upon a multitude of things.


Thank you very much; I appreciate the opportunity.

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