A Breakfast Conversation with Vern Gambetta (2001)


Published


My first time speaking was 1990 and there were quite a number of people there, but I was still working for the White Sox and everybody was kind of talking for the first five minutes and all of the sudden it became too quickly silent.  I don’t know if I was baffling or whatever, but it has been a neat run to be able to come back.  It is absolutely incredible to see this number of people at this time of the morning, so you’ve got to be really fired up.  So, I’m going to kind of give my usual three-hour talk in an hour and a half.  What I, as I was listening to Richard talk last night I really got fired up I couldn’t even sleep last night, I was writing notes about different things about athletes that I’m working with.  What I would like to do this morning is kind of go through in a sense and sort of summarize the things that I talked about over the last ten years, share with you the things that I learned, and share with you some of the mistakes that I’ve made.  Believe me, if you learn from your mistakes, I’m a genius, because I’ve made every mistake possible and I would like you not to have to make those mistakes in terms of learning, in regard to Dryland training. And I’m also going to pose you with some questions, because I think that we are at a real, real, sort of crossroads about where we can go.  If you look at the time allocation for Richard’s talk last night, a great, great majority of that talk was about Dryland training, the aspects of Dryland training and technique, and very little about energy systems and sets.  You know all that kind of stuff and I think that maybe tells us at that level, most of you don’t work with that level of swimming.

 

I have had the opportunity to work with some of the absolute best of the world, but I’ve made my choice and hopefully the next 25 to 30 years of my career to work with developmental lappers.  And I’m seeing a lot of things today and that’s what I want to show you guys cause most of you work with that level of athletes the kids from 11 years old to 18 years old and hopefully you can relate to that.  If you need to get in touch with me that is in the hand out, the best thing is e mail, I am on the road for about the next 9 months so I’m not going to be real fast answering, but go ahead and give me a shout or something like that if you need to get in touch with me.  Again I want to acknowledge and I perform better I would be at the group most of the time during breaks 2:09 to 2:11 so if you have specific questions, and again we are going to try to demonstrate some stuff that is difficult.  I just want to illustrate some things, there are some new toys that I like, that I have been using and feel those things and stuff to show you that it is not just something that we pull off of the wall.  Just some questions, what are you doing in terms of Dryland training?  Why are you doing it? And the question that I ask you and some of the things that I’ve seen, is it swim like or is it swim specific?  The last thing in terms of explaining swim like or swim specific, I think we have to be careful and this is the path that I think we’ve all gone down and I think future generations will do the same thing, and we try to make everything as specific as possible.

 

I just read an article again the other day where a person was figuring out the number kicks in such and such a breaststroke and was basing all their squat reps based on that and I know absolutely wrong, if I’m doing straight in terms of dryland training I’m going to do that in the pool.  What am I going to do in terms of Dryland training and that is what I want to try and make that distinction, because swim like and swim specific, when do we need to get specific, when do we need to be swim like and when do we need to be land animal like?

 

O.K., in terms of various things that are going to enhance what we do in the water, we can’t deny the three movements, our body, gravity and the ground.  When we get in the pool the ground is only a factor, we start and then we push off against the wall, gravity is less of a factor but it is still there cause it keeps water in the pool.  We still have to recognize that that’s a factor too, and that is the environment even if you swam six hours a day your still in that environment with the other 18 hours and that has a profound effect on our posture and how our body works, and how we think and how we perceive movement, and so we can’t deny that even though we are seeking performance in aquatic environment, alright.  Is what you’re doing, and this is going to make some of you uncomfortable, is what you’re doing making your swimmers better or is it just making them tired?  I think that a lot of times your Dryland training program should ducktail precisely and literally your last Dryland training program and that should be the first thing you do in the water.  You should look at neurolasivation and what you’re doing rather than one second cannot make an effort, one second can break an effort that is Dryland training that is the pool that is one too many races and meets.  So you got to keep in mind the sequence and the cumulative training effect over a period of time, hopefully we are going to motivate the people we work with for a period of time and you are going to see the results over a period of time, in terms of the body performance process.  I have a physical therapist that you heard me speak about before that we work very closely with, Gary Grey and Adrian Mishler there is a lot of Eastern European stuff that you better take with a grain of salt if you don’t see me at the booth and I will give you some more stuff that I’ve seen about the drug use and that kind of stuff.  The term general physical preparation, in today’s world is the kids that we get from the Nintendo generation, the MTV generation.  Everybody talks about that but yet we still train our athletes and we train our swimmers just like we did 20/25 years ago when they had an activity kind of play base, when they had game required physical education, the kids don’t have that.

 

So, in essence what we have to do is we have to provide a physical education class for them and this is true. I don’t care if you coach the age groupers or Olympians, but we have to constantly tap into this.  Why do we do general physical preparation work?  To raise the work capacity or the sport capacity their ability to handle greater work loads and be able to recover.

 

The other thing is fundamental work, now notice the key part, fundamental work.  What are the first two to three letters in fundamental?  It is fun, not frivolous ha, ha, but fun.  The athlete will see that these types of things that they do this remediation, this remedial work is going to make them mad and they are going to be able to enjoy it, but the point of it is it’s just basically play, it’s what kids used to do when they played on the playground and into the physical education so we are going to focus in on that, nothing is new.  John and I were just talking about Mihaly Ighloi who is a famous Hungarian track coach came to this country after the Hungarian revolution and coached a whole bunch of great runners and had a lot of influence on the coaches, and those concepts with rhythm and pining and all that kind of stuff in fact, are what you all do as swim coaches, all of you are familiar with Kipla and I did a talk in Boston about three or four years ago and mentioned Kipla and in the 40’s he was a psychiatrist.  I’m just going to talk to you this stuff that is in the book and present it to you today and you’ll think I’m a genius but I just copied something that was there 60 years ago, and basically it is all the stuff that we need to do so we have this idea because we live in a high tech information age that we want to reject what happened in the past.

There is another book out there that some of you heard me speak before about and I finally got a copy of the book and somebody stole my copy about 30 years ago and this is the last edition published, and this edition was 1970.  I heard the first edition was in the late 40’s, the stuff that they’re talking about in this book, about movement is right on today.  I mean it is the cutting edge so I think what we have to do is let’s be a little bit more aware about finding things in historical perspective, too in terms of all this.  So I can get off on that tangent.  Something that will work, this should be part of your program daily.  I personally believe, not because I’m not a swim coach and supposedly an expert in Dryland training, Dryland training should be part of your daily routine on the pool deck preparatory to swim.

 

And, given today’s society again I think you need to
remediate daily.  Your going to look at postural improvement and again I’d like to make a point right away that posture is not a picture is not a pose position, but posture is dynamic, alright and we could line everybody up out in the hall and do posture analysis and posture grip and some of you possibly were world class swimmers or whatever and you are going to see all kinds of weird stuff, the key thing is what happens when they start to swim.

 

O.K., the other thing you must remember about posture is the body is fundamentally A-symmetrical and so we have to make calls.  You look at me from behind, you’re going to see a drop shoulder and there are reasons for that and you’re going to see that directly with your athletes, and what are you going to do about that?  That is structural, you can’t necessarily change that, but you got to be aware potentially what limits that has.  Dallas, now again we are talking about in the water, we are talking about balance, supported in a horizontal position, righ?  But, none the less, I think we know from physical therapy, stroke patients what people are able to do that are extremely debilitated and can’t move and we can get them back to full functioning.  I believe very strongly, if you take those principals in a gravitationally enriched environment and yet have that carry over to the aquatic environment where gravity isn’t much of a factor.  We talked a lot about balance but I think we are trying to come up with very, very systematic progression in terms of balance improvement and it’s something you need to work on daily.  The other thing is coordination and the subset of coordination would be body awareness so understanding right to left orientation, top down, inside out, outside in, bottom up all of those kinds of things.  So, in this relatively play like activities that you can do and eventually what you want to do is as you fully progress through your program and get better we want to be able to individualize, so you give them a routine that’s theirs.  So everybody initially starts out doing a very, very excessive program where you teach all these things and then gradually you get it down.

 

So you need to do more balance, your coordination stuff is really good, balance is really going backward, so lets do some stuff.  I may be standing on one leg, or I’m standing to see if I can make a fool out of myself and do this, or maybe you all need to, if you all can see it, it is called a bow suit. Maybe I’m standing on one leg here and then I have to look over my left shoulder and be able to have my balance or depending on the stroke maybe I have to look down and look up and look down and look up and what effect does that have on this.  The feeling sense is really important when you think about a flip turn when you think about breathing on both sides all of those kinds of things.  So in essence, it is paying attention to detail, being a little bit anal in a sense.

 

Why does fundamental work?  Because kids specialize early.  My daughter just started college last week and she is a soccer player, but anyway, I sat around for all those years in age group soccer listening to these parents talk about how Suzie was going to get a school scholarship to here and Suzie was going to be on a National team and well Suzie is going to do this and Suzie is not doing anything now.  We want to keep people in whatever sport it is and I think we want to expose them to as rich of movement environment as possible, one sided advise training, yes you want to build an endurance phase, that is tremendous, but if a youngster does not have control of their body you can, you have to put the cart before the horse or the horse before the cart or whatever it is and then again I keep hammering this thing, the kids today have a very, very, poor background, I do a lot of stuff at Sarasota High School right now and it is absolutely amazing, actually the girls are significantly better than the boys, there is a societal thing going around and going on right now, the girls start out with what they start with, Mommy puts her in gymnastic, puts them in dance and puts them in different activities and they are being activitied the boys are watching baseball games on television or playing Nintendo, there is somebody here from Sarasota but I’ve never seen a generation of former boy athletes right now then what I’m seeing in our particular community, only, there are some great football players, there are some great basketball players but they are not good athletes and the athletes are the girls that are pretty much doing a lot of different, so it is really a kind of interesting paradox and that is a whole other social punctual discussion for another time.

 

Fundamental principal that I believe very, very strongly in, is fundamental movement skills before specific sport skills. Yes, you must teach certain mechanics, but what is the precursor to that, and that is what we are going to talk about in terms of sequencing Dryland and all of that type of thing and that is physical education.  There is an example of kind of an extreme balance in a sense, this is an Olympic mogul skier doing that thing here, don’t go back and do this on a trampoline and then you’ll sue me, but there is a reason he is doing that and that is to simulate the same type of bouncing that occurs and the same talent that the balance mechanism that he is going to face on the slope that he is ACL efficient, but try and find a trampoline and do that in a school, because of the liabilities you don’t have those, unfortunately you don’t have a swimming pool you have a trampoline, but that is a tremendous training tool, in terms of leg strength, body awareness, learning how to move limbs and the whole body and that type of stuff, so that it is a real important coordinating tool, coordinating movement and awareness.

 

Dan, I just had dinner with a real good friend who is the women’s track coach the other night and he is very much into music and he is a musician and I’m into music I like to listen to it and we were talking about movement, obviously I heard some of his track but it is his rhythm so any of the Dryland stuff that you can do, you can do to music and the more you can be aware of choice symphony’s and stuff and little hurdles that you can do with kids that are rhythmic activities so at first it is 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, then it is 123, 123 so you learn even rhythm broken rhythm and again to me, that is the precursor to distance per stroke and all of that so that is what we are talking about in terms of fundamental movements.  So those are all, they are little things and these are thoughts that my attitude is that if you have a three hour training session, that athlete should be fully engaged for three hours, it kills me to go to a training session in any sport and see athletes looking up at the coach, staring at them and the coach talking and that kind of stuff, if they are doing that they should be doing some sort of balance activity in the water, so whatever, so you are fully engaged working on these remedial things, coach this stuff, train it and then coach some more, notice the water, coach it and know it is flat, teaching it first and then train it and then constantly.

 

Now here is the other thing, being careful folks, and this is, I’m carrying with you a mistake, because I know that there is a period of time, about fifteen years ago we got into so correcting every movement that the athletes looked like robots, O.K. and I think what you want to do, is give the athlete a parameter, let them express their individuality, again that is where their postural limitation in some of these things we are going to put a signature on.  I don’t know technique like you all do, but I think I understand the learning mechanics and I can imitate, I think, just about race literature about the last 40 years, every one of them had a certain signature whether it is head position, arm action but eventually when the rubber meets the rope they all have to do with correct and the same thing with your great swimmer, you can look at all of your great freestyle swimmers, there is going to be little signatures but eventually they will have to do common elements correct and I think that is the call that we have to make, that the way you coach it, then we train it and then you coach it again.

 

Obviously, if there is a fault in the movement then you correct it, O.K. I’m not saying to ignore that, cause to recognize that there are certain things that you can’t correct and certain things that you can correct.  I did a Dryland training school last year and recommended this book and this has become a lot of my bible.  If you are a parent, if you’re a teacher, if I’m ever home long enough in Sarasota I’m going to buy a copy for all the school board members to read, because we have a movement in today and education in the workforce and taking physical education and taking activity away and the author is, you can’t read it but it’s Carla Hammerford, back in your bibliography and it’s wide learning. I think when you read this book it really, really, tells the parents and kids, in terms of how you teach and how you look at movement and how you train, this lady is basically a learning disability specialist but it’s all about coaching, believe me, it is all parenting, its all about teaching, and in communicating movement skills, because the work way to learn is precisely what we are learning right now.

 

O.K. you already enriched the information overlooked, you are sitting on your butt, we are designed to move and to learn by movement and again I know you will retain a certain amount of it, and certainly, but again, that is the stuff that will really make you think.  Here is another message, I’ve said this for about the last five years what we are ultimately training is not the cardiovascular system, not the muscular system, not the end up at home alone system, but what we’ve got to do is we got this compulsive.  The muscles are related to the brain, the cardiovascular system responds to the brain, so if we can recognize that and I think if you understand particularly in North America, most research has been done on Mac D02 intervals, cardiovascular types of measure where you look the Germans, the Italians, the Fins, have really, really looked at the neuromuscular system, in neuron control, in motor control and motor drive and recruitment and all of that kind of stuff.

 

If you look at the work that Bill Kramer and Rob Newton are doing a false state in India because I think that they are right out there on the cutting edge in looking at neuron drive power and folks if you want to be on the cutting edge I think that is where the cutting edge is, because we know there is a limit to all those cardiovascular, but if we can reduce, Richard talked about putting a heavy bar on your shoulders and just holding it, but what’s he doing, it’s time under tension, there are reasons why that works, there is physiological reasons why that works, reducing inhibition, your recruiting more motor units, O.K. that’s going to carry over, but that neuron that is not the cardiovascular system.  O.K. train movements not muscles, alright the other thing that when you talk about Dryland training, and I do work for it, as consultant for an equipment company, but most of the equipment that we utilize is very, very I don’t necessarily like the word functionally, for lack of a better term, functional, is that it involves balance, it involves control and that kind of stuff.  Where we live in this hi tech society where everybody thinks you’ve got to have circuit of $20,000.00 machines and all those things do is do what?  Isolate individual muscles, but that is not we swim, it’s not how you move, it is patterns with movement terrific term from Logan and McKinney from 15 years and they called it aggregate muscle action.  O.K. a breaststroke movement is aggregate muscle action it is how the muscle works, we are not training distance, we are not just training the legs, we are not training the upper extremities, but we are trying to integrate all those together to produce the ultimate swim stroke, so when we are putting together good sound Dryland training program you never want to lose sight of toe nails and finger nails and that is what we are going to constantly do and I think that is where Mike from the first time I spoke here about 10 years ago, 11 years ago actually because it has evolved, I think we were looking a certain body parts, certain areas that maybe over emphasizing those and now my thought process of evolvement is we have to find a way to always relate what, the parts and the whole, O.K. that would be kinetic change. O.K. a little bit of philosophy of strength training for swimming and I think this is going to be at a certain point is possibly a ship, the number one thing in attending as many presentations that I’ve been able to attend in talking to a lot of my colleagues who are swim coaches and consulting with some of the teams and that, and I hear people talking about the posture, elongation, stream line, because that is the difference of when we are working in aquatic environment, so we’ve got to become as efficient as possible.  I started thinking well what happens when we spend a great deal time year in and year out and do we want bulk, do we need bulk, I don’t think so, but we want to be as strong as we can be and have that strength transfer to the pool.  How do we make it transfer to the pool, I want to look at strengthening on Dryland that are going to work the muscles that are going to enhance posture, alright, if that doesn’t sound like double talk.

 

So, if I have to elongate and I’m doing things in Dryland training that are going to shorten, and I don’t believe that old myth about swimming lengthens your muscles and all that, because great soccer players and runners and that swim too.  But I think and this is what I’m going to share with you hopefully in the next forty minutes are some exercises that in my experience will do that.  O.K. so we are looking at really honing in on those movements, working on particular muscles that are going to enhance posture, whether it is a long stroke or whether it is a short stroke, and to me that is a bit ship. I’ll just show you two exercises, three exercises real quick with our fundamental upper body exercises you can see me instead of seeing me in the book, the key that I’m looking for there is not how much weight I lift by the rhythm in which I can do it.  Alright, then I want to go to a side you get up here and try these and come down and you will start to feel right away, right to the core right up to your shoulders right out and the last one is kind of gross because you smell the arm pits, so now what I’ve done is I’ve taken the work, basically all of the muscles in the upper extremity from the core with three simple exercises that were, and the key there is if you look at it again, curl and press, curl plain, transfer plain, is basically what I’ve done is working all points of motion and I’ve worked patterns, patterns of movements and emphasized rhythm and the problem with this that I struggle with a little bit is I’m saying that we don’t need more weight we need less weight.  I know about the rhythm that you want to do it, is that way to heavy.  That is not what I want, that’s not the pattern that I want it is not good either, so I say rhythm can I move the weight or whatever, yes, it simply it is going to be a stretch cord implement with control, I think you want to be aware sort of the rhythm syndrome.

 

I think this has been talked a lot about, now the other thing is, is do you lift heavy, absolutely, there is this point you have to build up, not with age groupers, but once their past puberty unless structurally you feel that Kathy has intensity I think you got to go through various phases where you are lifting heavy weights at various times for short periods of time, but it is not a study diet, again, your not and you don’t have to go bulk because nobody’s saying it, alright, your trying again to work on postural improvement, so hopefully again I can share some of that stuff with you, I think one of the key things that you do with strength training is nervous system excitations and neuron recruiting, and that is why that pattern idea is really important.

 

The other question that I continually ask myself in every sport that I work with swimming is dramatic in this as everything else is how much strength is enough?  How much strength do you need to be a world class swimmer? I did a presentation in 96 and I asked that question and Teretsky raised his hand and he started for 5 minutes and he said you need to bench press this and typical Russian thing, well, again there was a little bit of language barrier in that, but I don’t know that you can be that absolute, in terms of you need to bench press that.  I think if you go across, you are going to see world class swimmers that never touched the world record holders and your just going to see swimmers that spend hours in the weight room and there has always been and there will always be that glyconomy because we have to individualize, my attempt to answer that is the next well first of all is looking at what I call full spectrum training, we have to train to multiple plains of motion just like I did, sagittal, frontal and transfer of movement, all swimming strokes occur in all three Plaines simultaneously, all movement, that is the way the body works, we don’t have all these neat, our body is constructed like a machine in that respect, multiple joint, not isolated but integrated, as full a range of motion as we can control.

 

O.K. that is the key word, I didn’t want but it as full of range of motion that we can control and muscles, in our ligaments and in our tendons, and if we can wake those up and utilize that, to me the propriaseptors are what gives us the quality of movement, and I think we always tend to put them over kind of in the technique area, but in the strength training area we can do a lot of that stuff by balance activity, by challenging various proprietors now to answer then is to how much strength is enough is maybe the strength training and I’m not going into a great deal of time into this cause I’ll get off is a general strength and transitional strength and specific strength a lot of what we do in diaphragmic training and purpose training is general strength training.  This exercise is developed in your hand up I’m just, basically lifting weights, I’m doing pushups I’m doing pull-ups you know that kind of stuff, transitional stuff on the other hand are exercises that convert general strength to specific more movement to specific a lot of your strength core work, most of your body weight is going to fall into that category and then specific strength are exercises that imitate actual action of swimming in a similar posture, this movement is specific and there is a higher speed, higher force in pulling and what I want to do is give you some demonstrations and give you some examples of what these various classifications could be because I think that helps us answer the question of how much strength is enough.

 

Now, what I would like to share with you before you do that so you can do that and let me get my morning workout in, in your handout right here in terms sort of general recruitment types of things and I really believe that with 9, 10 11 year olds you can use a 2 kilo met ball and if you have some space and some of you are limited by where you are in your pool deck just hold body power we call it multiple basically, eventually they become tests, I can’t use my full power that I’ve developed over my 54 years, basically what I’m going to do is recruit toe nails to finger nails so I’m going to go an over the back throw here that didn’t look very popular but your trying to throw as far as you can just a forward through the legs throw, like that and again and I think you eventually want to transfer that so you are doing that off the block.  Single leg squat throw, again the legs keep it in a bilaterally action the legs work independently where I’ve got the ball right in front of my foot here, I’m not letting this leg counter balance unless the, and the ball is right here I just do a single leg squat down and throw up and that really work the extensor of the legs, the glutes and the ham string and then the last one, soup throw, I really want to work the ham strings now instead of picking the ball up with my hands down I scoop it up like that and really get my ham strings and my glutes and then the last one is just a side throw, so this is for power endurance so I’m here I get the ball up as high was I can and down and I’ll do that for ten reps for ten seconds, a lot of times you’ll see how many reps they can get for ten seconds and throwing them as high as I can, and those are things that you can use.

 

People want to use polymeric, but I get a little bit nervous with extensive polymeric a lot of times with swimmers because people gravitate toward swimming because they are not good at playing polymeric.  And so we are going to manipulate that variable throughout, the other thing that I would like to just dispel with you to is the power aspect and the ski aspect is going to be in the program from day one.  I always laugh and I think swimming coaches and distance coaches and track and I always smile when I was coaching tract because I knew we could beat them when we have them start speed workout because if you have to start speed workouts then the chances are that I’ve got equal talent because in the end I’m going to kick your butt it’s as simple as that.   Because with coaches it is all about swimming as fast as you can, it’s all about moving as fast as you can, you learn speed is a learned response it’s a motor power, consequently power is a component in that, we’ve got to incorporate that literally from day one, I’m in the pool and I’m dealing with a lot of yardage, that is a good method to keep that power component that what I’m trying really, really early to teach to be doing polymeric training and that kind of stuff which is high risk.  You see to where you put that in, so it is another thing that you can utilize.

 

This next thing up here, this is something Eric? A physical therapist friend of mine that I came up with about five years ago, it doesn’t seem like that long, but the whole idea I mean I’ll show you again, I’m going to go through a matrix real quick, the idea is in these next things, is things that I think you can utilize very, very regularly with dumb bells with things like power balls and like power balls you can see why in a couple of minutes, because, well everybody here, because I can release it and that ultimately is going to give me the highest speed the highest work component that I want in terms of developing power, but the idea of this matrix is I’ve got three points.

 

I’ve got lower body, obviously lower extremity core and upper body, and what I’m going to do, is so there is three plains, three body parts and I’m going to go three repetitions, so basically like last time we’ll use this for and one or two times matrix before you get in the pool, sort of activate the nervous system to work all frames of motion.  For example we can make a lunge making synthesis and I’ll do this in my morning workout so I’ll only do three reps because I’ll be tired and I won’t be able to talk.  So I’ll do maybe like first of all I’m going to do like an anterior lunge, something like that, then what I do for core is I may do just a high pull it is upper body exercise then I’ll do go right into, and I never stop, and I go right into forward press, then I go frontal play so now I’m going to do a side lunge and on each side, and then see how I’m shifting my weight from one side to the other and then I may do the old from the top frontal play thing then when it comes transfer play I’m going to do a rotational lunge and then I’m going to do the total body exercise and it should be like a dumb bell snap. So, right away before I’ve done anything, I’ve done 27 reps and I’ve worked the whole body, I can do that without a dumb bell by the way and if we had room I would take you all through it and workout the good sweats and you all would have to go to the deodorant concessions outside for the rest of the day but you could just go through that with kids without a dumb bell.

O.K. and they can do three reps, and you know what, three reps are just as good, I don’t know what we are doing right now with the girls basketball team and they are good, they are one of the best group of athletes in 32 years of coaching in terms of workout and basically you do three positions with body weight, now your nervous system is really awake and ready to go, what is it, it goes back, I mean if you go the frontal it’s movement through all plains of motion in pattern, so this is something that you can utilize.

 

You can so you use it early on in your training program and as you get down to your taper, and you really, really are in a peaking situation and you can use it again there, so it is a concept and a bullet that you want to put in at a different time.  Dumb bell complex, this is something that I’ve never really presented on and it is an old concept.  I can remember back in the days when I ran a wooden ship I was tired of being an athlete doing this type of stuff, basically you would do a press then you would do a squat, Juan? Is at Middle Tennessee and works with football and basketball there and Fred Roll of Kansas works with football really taken this concept with dumb bells and is something that I’ve really, really utilized a lot in the last 18 months and I think in this environment in swimming that it is an answer to a lot of questions in terms of building up work capacity building up power endurance and being able to work total body, the principal is very simply that you are going to have a pulling movement followed by a pushing or pressing movement followed by a squatting movement.  When I say squatting we talk about the derivatives basically a lunge is a derivative of a squat and step up is a derivative of a squat, so what you are doing is you are putting these in combination against a dumb bell complex, so you can, I gave you some examples in here of the variable simple complex that we’ll start with, and you will start, and this isn’t in the hand out but what’s basically what you want to do is if you know your athlete’s body composition, you want to go 10% of factory weight, which is very, very little weight and when you say that, with particularly boys and testosterone that is only ten pounds, trust me, we’ll go through this and then tell me it’s only ten pound, because one of the things that we’ve done with the girls basketball and volleyball we call it the 3,000 pound tower, we go through the fab five that is on here with a 20 pound dumb bell at the end of a workout you go to 3,000 and they have to go and tell their parents that they 150 pound point guard.

 

I’m going to do a high pull now watch where I’m going with this, I stand on the table and then I’m going to go from there put the dumb bell right on my shoulders here and then I’m going to go to a squatting and all you do is you do 6 repetitions back and they actually build up and they do five sets of those, 6, 6, 6 and usually what we do is we pair the athletes up.  So if you do a set of dumb bell complexes while I’m resting, rest is always in close and over hear I’m over here and I’m doing either balance activity or I’m doing some sort of core activity with the memo, so your never stopping, O.K. and you kind of see where I’m going, but that’s reps and then we alternate, so we pair off into a relay, once you master that and then you go to the next level, so you start simple and you staying pretty much bilateral type of work in the sagittal plank and then your going to progress to more complex type of movements in the planner, I’ll go through the fab part I’ll do the last one for you just to see, this is in your sheet there, so I’m going to go an alternate dumb bell snatch, but its going to be, now I’m going to add rotation, so the dumb bell is across from my body and I’m here, then I go to push first, so I’m here, there, there.

 

O.K. now if you don’t believe that that’s core work, the finest athlete and put fifteen pounds in each hand and say O.K. I want you to do 8 reps of that and see what kind of core work you get with that, then I’m going to do up right row, there, O.K. now watch now I go alternate squat and press, so I squat down on two legs press up on one, squat down on two, press up on one, squat down on two, press up on one and then last thing I just go into a rotational row, now you eventually build up to the point where you are doing five sets what time is it, Oh, I’m alright, five sets of six repetitions of those figure out your reps and multiply that by the weight and you are up to 3 or 4,000 pounds and that kind of stuff.  The interesting thing is the results, it’s kind of a contradictory in a sense, because you do a lot of reps but the results we found increase the vertical.  The test that I like to use in terms of power is the over the back throw, and with a couple of athletes this last fall, just this one here, we had guys go up like ten feet in like 6 weeks you can really see the dynamics change.  Distance, distance.

 

Progress through the season and again I’m already short of time I’m going to go through a couple things, show you where some of the stuff you would fit in, but I’m, I’ve become much, much more of believer more, but, I’ve done no work, because the body is a fundamental asymmetrical I put a bar in my hands and what happens and so again even though you are swimming maybe a stroke that looks bilateral I still can get greater ranges of motion and the dumb bell in full range of motion as opposed to a bar or a machine now when I have to go heavy I want to make this point again, I have to go heavy at various times now and this is with your athletes now and I need help and I’m going to have to go over to the bar, because I can’t load the dumb bell, and I think that sometimes we try to go with that too fast.

 

O.K.  Core strength and stability Hugh Buzward spoke on this two years ago I believe that the core is as important as we have made it out to be, but once again I think basically what a lot of us got led down the prim rose path and then we were taken the core out of context, the core works what? As a relay center, it, we don’t necessarily have to work the core isolated, why, here is the question that I pose to you and I pose with some of the experts on core strength and stability, why would I integrate on the legs and integrate on the upper body and isolate the core.  Now I’m just a dumb old coach folks I don’t even have a degree really, I have master’s degree sort of in physical education my undergraduate degree is in social studies with emphasis with Latin American history I just ask a lot of dumb questions, you know because I’m just a social studies major and so I listen to people talk about punctual training and integrated training and they talk about well you have to do squats you have to do lunges and you got do multi joint movements here, and they say, when you get to the core you have to isolate the internal oblique and transverses abdominous, I used to like the Lone Ranger and Tonto, and when Tonto used to say Kemo Sabe white head’s speak with fork tongue, and we are speaking with fork tongue, because we are saying something that is contradictory.

 

Everything that I just showed you is core training, every time a lift them way overhead or a stretch cord or even just lift my hand overhead it is core training.  A push up, what is really a push up, what is the limiting factor as you are laying on the ground and your all doing what Richard said, that is fine and that is cool stuff and it works for them, I’m not sure you have to spend a whole bunch of time teaching them, I think there is a lot of ways that you can accomplish that without laying somebody down and say pull your belly button to the ground and it is artificial, you are making somebody robotic and I know, I mean I coach world record holders and Olympians like that, I’m not trying to be argumentative but I know what we see, my background is track and field and I was a terrible athlete in this, I almost worked a decathlon, but I trained with guys that were world record holders and you know what, those guys never did sit ups and they never core training but what we did, we did a lot of jumping we did a lot of throwing and they did a Para lifting over head, and one time there actually was muscles there, you could see it back here, and again, and to me that was powerful evidence, we did, I’m off on a little bit of a tangent but I’ll be back quick.

 

There was a football player that I worked with last fall that I worked with for a long time, a football player.  We went to one of the world’s most beautiful beach, siesta beach, really nice, soft, dry sand, so we go out there the other day and we start and we just do sprints in the dry sand and then we start doing the jumps and we did a bunch of agility work and I was doing an aging study at the time, it was like at age 53, how long would I be hanging with a 25 year old, it’s not too long, by the way, but anyway, the next day, because of the workout and the person says to me, gosh, I don’t know what we did yesterday but my abs are killing me, and I said I’ve got the same thing, you know you did an unstable surface like dry sand or snow or something like that and you start doing jumps and you start doing throws and you start doing sprints and I’ll tell you what that is core work, I mean you are going to feel every muscle cause if you are on one foot, your on unstable surface and you got to stable, anyway without beating a dead horse, I think the other thing that, what is the core.

 

When we are doing the workout if we are doing a typical Dryland session first thing that we are going to do if you come down to the booth I’ll show you guys the next thing that we are going to do, not lying, not seated, we are just going to go through, and I’ll do just a couple of reps of each I’ll do them right toward you, we are going to do walking rotation, why, cause as soon as I’m on one leg and I have to rotate, I have to stabilize and you know what if the athlete can’t do it then we are going to go back and premeditate it, the other thing is every training session is a test, testing equals training and training equals testing, yes I test and you should test and the ultimate test is what, is competition isn’t it, so first thing wide rotation, there I step and I twist into the leg and all this oriented the ball so I’ll go 20 reps up and 20 reps back.

 

O.K. it doesn’t have to be a med ball I wish every swim team would buy a whole bunch of med balls and then I could pay for my son and daughter’s tuition or whatever and tapes and all that, then the next one is tight rotation, so the ball is right here, I’ll actually show you forward and I’m trying to put the ball in my back pocket if you’ll notice I’m looking at the ball too, that is the other key thing I don’t have my head here, I’m looking at the ball, so it looks like this, here, here, and just the simple fact that the gay cycle is the basis for all movement and you know what happens in the pool if you really think about it, O.K., they not only go frontal plains, or I go over the top and what am I doing as I go over the top I’m trying to elongate and reach as tall as I can, and then the last one is just figure 8 so I’m here, eventually my daughter had invented this one, eventually you get to the point where, as your bringing the ball over the top you come there and you catch and you have to stabilize on one leg, see again that is creating a body awareness and I think that is going to carry over and the athletes are going to relate to that, a lot quicker then if you lay on the ground and do activities that are very, very different then what their going to do you know in the pool, so that is the core before extremities.

 

O.K., so before we ever do put a weight in their hand, or do that, we are going to do those kinds of things to wake up the core, what is the function of the core, it is the ultimate relay center of the body, transferring movement from the legs up and the top down O.K. and it also in, we are not worried about that but it counterbalances center gravity and basis of support this is again from Logan and McKinney and this is a great, great anatomical illustration of the core muscles and what we have to do, that serape is a Mexican garment that crosses diagonally and again the anatomical structure or body should be our first clue about how we really move, we move how we swim, you don’t swim in strait lines everything is diagonal rotational pattern, walking is diagonal rotational pattern so hence, we want to look at this serape effect is a synergistic relationship with the rhomboids, the serratus the external oblique and the internal oblique and it is the connection of the hip to the shoulder which we are going to talk about just in a couple of minutes about permitting shoulder injuries and if we follow this pattern then we could prevent a lot of shoulder injury, on your left would be anterior view of the muscular serape and on your right would be a posterior, and again so that both in terms of what, strap cord, medicine ball all are exercises if you are going to do that, all training is core training, that is basically, so instead of saying, I remember, I distinctly remember watching.

 

How many of you are into core training?  Everybody put up there hand so I asked and picked out somebody and asked what do you do, well I do a thousand curl ups and you know that was the thing, and so what, that’s only one aspect of core training, so again we want to integrate a core into the whole system and try to get that out of it.  My question to you is how much time are you spending doing that? Hopefully we are spending less time doing that. O.K. we are going to utilize, I think that one of your best tools in swimming, I’m not a big fan of this and if I’m not working with swimmers because again, it’s not an environment that my basketball players, my soccer players are hopefully are not lying down on a mat too often, maybe after the game they might be or something like that but they can train for that specifically later.  I’m not going to teach them that, but we can come as close to creating the environment in the water on this so, and again the whole thing on this in terms of size and hopefully we will just demonstrate a couple of progressions in a few minutes.  Even to the point of just doing a bench pressing on a physio ball with dumb bells, because all of the sudden if I have to bench press on a physio ball now I have to really stabilize with the core, now if I can get so good to the point where I have my legs straight out in front of me supporting on a bench, now that gets a little bit nice, now if you can do that talk to me because you got a real ace if they can do that, so that can be dangerous, too.

 

O.K. exercise classification in terms of the core, stabilization first, two years ago we talked about an ab routine which is just a lot of side support supine that kind of stuff and eventually you are going to build up to that, I think that is fine and well, one of the things that we began to do is using like the bow suit, which is basically, I don’t know how we can make it so you can see this, but basically you get in a support position and you are as back as far as you can and eventually your going to get to the point where your arms are out in front where you are just touching all four points in the compass so to speak and then your going complete circles you know like that.  Again people have this mistaken notion that it is but what happens think about kids, they start to sag right away so the limiting factor is really core strength so you are working on that elongation idea and that stability from the core up through the shoulders I think that is what you always want to keep in mind that you do that.

 

So, those are the examples of stabilization.  Even a lot of your balance stuff surprisingly enough make a ninny out of myself but I can stand here and if you just toss me the ball, I mean there is a certain stabilization of holding that too isn’t there?  You know through the core, balance has a lot to do with core stability, flexion extension, we know that point, I would prefer to see the variable of what he did, so what he did is he started out with his knees fairly bent and close together and wide and then all we did is bring them together and lengthen out and the other way the other variable that we can do let’s catch two throw one, now again.

 

Yes (question) the more stabilized, correct.  This is just one exercise I’m not saying this is the only exercise, alternate arms, now you are going to catch one.  You could bring the size of the ball based on the size of the person, but see that is how I would do the extension so I created that sort of control and stability, I know what the variables are but I could do that, I think you are going to get more out of that, in terms of transfer, rotation youth, to me at least 60% of your core work should be rotation, honestly if you are working with butterfly and breaststroke then you are probably cage up proportionately a diagonal rotational type of stuff is really important, and throwing and catching, now that also can be throwing and catching, I don’t know how solid that wall is, we are going to start out about (showing an exercise here)  We can also do that and we can also go up over the shoulder, and again you can build, you take a few basic exercises like that is our basic throw and catch routine, but then what happens I’ve got one arm one leg, I want to always have a progression, where do I start where am I going.

 

O.K. just a couple of exercise postures, prom, supine, standing, moving and I think you want to do a combination of all of them depending on where you are and what your doing, this is you all know who that is on the right, this is at a Dryland training camp in Australia ‘99 that is Suzie O’Neil just doing the med ball throw, this is Lockland?  Who is a friend of mine that designed their Dryland program, so this is just an example of the diagonal rotation movement I’ll actually, this is a Kayaker in Australia, so you start there (showing an exercise) again where am I starting how can I progress, Richard Nato made a really, really good point about changing every six to 8 weeks, and Rob Newton at Ball State he said neutrally you need to change every 14 days, that doesn’t mean change exercise if you change exercise think about your typical situation in those of you come if you change exercise every 14 days what are you going to have, mass chaos right, so what do you do, you have a choppy movement and you just add a variation of the choppy movement, so even the simple measure, look at the ball, look down, look at the ball.

 

O.K. so basically, I shared with you one thing I’ve learned in the last four years, Gary ? Was a good friend of mine I think he is the greatest sprint coach in the world at the University of Illinois yes, in the semi-finals in the world championships with no drugs really incredible in the track and what we’ve done is a number of exercises that got less, and less and less but the variations of those exercises have gotten more and more and more, so again I don’t think of us are lazy but it makes teaching simplified.  So if you just working derivates O.K., that is just a real point.

 

(Question) 14 to 21 days 14 I think that is with the higher mobile athlete I think with younger kids you can look, one other thing that you run into, you run into a board you look at stroke patients in physical therapy, you pay somebody to come to his first day he is severally debilitated from the stroke, literally by the end of that first day, they are able to move so if you don’t think you’re living in a dream world, I know what the text book say, but I know with practice, so I think that tells us that we better have in our tool box a lot of these progressions so that we can pull that out when we see that.  O.K. real quick I’m not going to spend a lot of time with this cause I wanted to make sure that we had a few minutes for questions and a little bit on program design, sauropod effect, kick to shoulder relationship and again I’m not going to get in there and be a frog and try to talk I just learned how to swim three years ago and I’m thankful I can swim right and swim a mile without dying.

 

But I just did a goofy little experiment one day and I tried to swim flat, just completely flat in the water without you know, like I was taught to swim four year ago or something like that, and guess what I’ve never had a shoulder problem never had a sore shoulder, guess what the next day I had a real, real sore shoulder, I did happen to with the power of suggestion and so I said I’m going to go back and swim and all I did was let my head and my shoulder didn’t hurt.  And I’ve always said cause I do a lot of work with athletes and that but if you really want to understand the core concept just look at freestyle swimming, cause everything kind of slows down under the water and you can see that relationship from the head to the shoulder and so a lot of you are probably still doing isolated extra rotation all that kind of stuff, that is all fine and well but that fifteen minutes a day that you can spend on better stuff.

 

O.K. to be honest with you and a lot of the core stuff a lot of the dumb bell stuff when you take the core toenails to fingernails the legs to the core up through the fingertips , just have to work on that we’ve got to do all of the core stuff if I can do this stuff here on the it’s just a simple routine, this is what is called an extreme balance core and it just doesn’t balance right up and balance for out and I can do pushups on this O.K. where I have to go down and I have to go and stabilize and then move, four out, right left, the same thing on this, either on that side or on that side, believe me and the routine with the dumb bells I really work and the other thing that I think you need to remember, hip to the shoulder is hip mobility is I still see swimmers doing extreme shoulder stretches you must stretch the peck, there is no question because the peck gets tight, the most important muscle that you want to stretch, stand up here a second, face down, is the lat, the lat is a huge connector from the shoulder to the hip on the same side and you think of all the activities of what happens with the lat, you must lengthen and another thing you have to do is hip mobility, hurl walks, all kinds of things crawling, different things that open up your hip, somebody came to me last night and said my son is really, really has tight calves and can’t get the starting blocks, can’t get his hips down, and I said what kind of hip mobility is he really tight in his hips, well it’s all related the calves are related the old song the ankle bone is related to the knee and all like that, so this is a whole other topic, it is called body awareness a whole other topic for another day but I didn’t want to spend a whole bunch of time on it but just to remind you, you know what ever the stroke is, and then the other concept, this is from Gary Gray, instead of flexibility, if you can, it will never happen in our lifetime, maybe in a different generation will do like I’ve done with Logan and McKinney, will go back the team most stability.

 

O.K. but  I have to have stability with that so it is the right amount of motion at the right plain at the right joint at the right time.  O.K., and that is a real, real important station, so when we are doing flexibility or more stability work, that is what we have to think of, are we compromising stability at the expense of mobility or visa versa and so consequently we carefully design all of the modalities that we have whether it be set core whether it be a ball, yes we can work we never want to compromise range in motion.  Here is another simple example at the shoulder where I can basically just take I won’t do a physio ball because you can’t see it, but I would do it in a prone position on a physio ball where you take a ball relative to the size of the person, what is this one, four pounds, and I hold it literally out front and you hold it for about 6 to 8 seconds drop, hold it drop it, hold it drop it for about six reps and then there you go.  And then the last couple try to, catch, grab, catch grab, catch grab, catch grab, or whatever you do, I’m working on all basically all these joints you know right on down through the lats right on through my core something like that not just with the simple little balls, or something like that, I can do a similar type of thing literally with the stretch cord you know with the prone position where it is elongated, you know I’m just pulling in like that, I can’t do some creativity and use your imagination, get away from it, again, if we want to with the rest of the body we know I hear that time and time again, so why do we put a tremendous focus on what, strengthening the shoulder, we want to look at the shoulder as the link in the kinetic chain, work on it, real quick and hopefully we will have a few minutes for questions, this might be the most important part of the whole training session, is in every sport, It just gets crazy the amount of time that is wasted you have to work them.  So it is your transition from your normal activity, most of you work with youngsters that are in school what do they do, they sit, or they just got out of bed before the morning workout, we’ve got to do something to activate them, we got to create those patterns, we actually, I believe we set people up for injury by what we don’t do in warm-up so the term is warm-up to swim, don’t swim if you don’t warm-up.  If I can do ten minutes on the pool deck of crawls, some different, and again you just a real, real simple routine where first one I’m going to start and I’m just going do just like the Nordic throw thing then what I’m going to do is I have leather strength cord then I’m going to do a reverse fly but now see the alternating aspect of it, then I’m going to come here and I’m just going to do just a regular old fashioned fly there with the thumbs up and then the last thing is the punching.  Alright then I’ll do my mental work first, I’ll do that, then I’m going to do the crawls and then I’m in the water O.K. now what you are going to see they are ready to swim, you created that linkage of the hips to the shoulder the awareness of the whole body, and your going to get that much more out of the workout, again training the student and the younger the athlete, the more adaptive response your going to see, from day to day, from week to week from month to month, you’ve got a routine this type of remedial sort of routine, but again folks I think the problem with this is you know you get in a hurry, and so let’s get in the pool let’s work on, I just went to the world clinic and I learned this really, really cool anaerobic set O.K., but lets take care of the basics I think it is the point.

 

I’ll go through this real, real quick there are a couple, one point I want to make here, sequence in timing in the application of the training stimulants, so much of the literature on periodization frankly has been tainted, is drug tainted, I’m convinced now, I have a translation of Richard? Book on Dorothy and Sport and her husband spoke three years ago and it is scary after I read that my skin was crawling they were blindly led down the prim rose path, cause most of your cycles that you read about in the very periodization text are drug cycles and I know it is on tape but I don’t care, because 21 day loading cycle is a drug cycle, or a 28 day cycle or a 14 day cycle, we don’t coach in that environment and I don’t want to coach in that environment so we’ve got to come up with alternatives.

 

We’ve got to look at the starting point, what is the end product, what do you want your swimmer to look like in the last race at nationals.  That is the most obvious thing that I think we need to look at.   What you want to achieve, how do you want to achieve it, O.K., long term, short term, have them plan it O.K.  If you don’t have a plan this guy would have had the right kind of undergarments on that wouldn’t have happened, so, alright how much time do you have, do you have two months, do you have a whole year, do you think that this person is going to have a commitment for a career, so consequently look from year to year, those are really important considerations.  So factors and effective planning what is your developmental levels, I don’t think you can’t throw all 12 year olds in the same pool and do the same workouts, we know that but we still do it, O.K. dryland or in the pool, the competitive scheduling of gender, females, there are some definite consideration you must take into consideration, the female athlete must strength train earlier before puberty, must strength train throughout the training and never get away from it, I’ll make that blanket statement, and if you do you are short changing the female athlete, there are some other considerations too, that I won’t go into at the present time, but I think are really, really important, I don’t think you can train at certain ages as boys and girls the same and there is a whole bunch written on that.  We have this mistaken idea and it is called coaches concept, that three hours we have the swimmer dictates everything in your day, folks it is an unequal equation, I wasn’t real good at math, but if you subtract three from 24 how many, there are 21 hours and that 21 hours has a hell of a lot more effect on the three then the three does in the 24, so we used to say in professional baseball you can’t be so/so off the field and be a champ on the field and so there is a lot of considerations, some of it is just simply, if you are coaching in the university, I mean I forgot, I watched my daughter in the first meeting school and playing soccer I’d forgotten what it was like, you know the pressures that you have, that the kids have, and you better take that into consideration, adaptability and recovery, that is the key to training, can they recover from the training, we can hammer but can they recover from the training.  Dryland plus in the water we have got to look at the total spectrum, we don’t put that what is their path of interest, do they have shoulder soreness, if they do what is the genesis of it, you’ve got to look at that, or is it something we’re doing in training.  What training time do I have available?

 

Here is my last point and I hope there will be some questions.  Here is something that Gary Winkler, at the University of Illinois and I have been working on for about ten years, and I think we are at the core now where I think we really understand it, we are calling that modular training, the whole idea is your going to take specific combinations and sequences of exercises that are designed to be very specific and compatible.  So for example I may have a core module that is very carefully sequenced it starts today and it’s rotational core module, so we will start kind of on two legs go to one leg and eventually go some throws and catches, so as I’m looking down in the modules there are about 5 or 6 passes per exercise, and a workout session a Dryland session may have 4 or 5 module, I may have a core module, I may have an upper body strength module, I may have a lower body strength module, I may have some sort of a power module, and the idea is each of those modules, I’m looking carefully of how one exercise flows into the next exercise and you might say that’s not necessary repetition, I know it’s not revolutionary but I said I show you the mistakes, a lot of times you look at the exercises, and when it has done is it has forced me to really, really think.  I really, really want to visit out in the booth because there are some things that we’re working on, I wish I could do just a whole presentation on that and the other thing that we are doing instead of at the beginning of the week, rise and step, rep, volume and intensity and write it for today’s workout based upon what you know the way they left the pool yesterday, so what you did in the pool, because see you don’t have this crystal ball this is the other problem we have to deal with and they come back and they recover.  To coach in that environment and I don’t want to coach in that environment but we don’t have margin and error and so we’ve got to really, really read the athlete, how do they face the session, how do they feel and then you write the session reps for those modules for the next day and so now it is kind of shock to them, your coming with the rifle, that is what I found, yeah, it is a little bit of up front kind of to kind of design these models and then it becomes easy and you are literally on the computer you can cut and paste into any program, I’m so sophisticated I use Microsoft Word so anyway.

 

O.K., last training components are a synergistic relationship all components must be trained during all phases of the training year and just trained once in different proportioned.  In my taper I’m not going to be doing tons of absolute strength work but I’m going to be having and that is the biggest mistake that I know that I’ve made throughout the years, any questions.

 

(Question) Right, me too, 32 years, no comment, no comment on the psychic lenses, when you draw your own conclusions and some of it is valued under principal, I guess that is why I don’t have any comment, but again it is a blanketed eye, the whole Eastern European system and I think you just have to, first thing is, the alternative is we have to play them, O.K. and we’ve got to understand our athletes number one, that is the first point I would make, the basis of periodization, training is not something I do to you it is something that we work on together, O.K. and I think we have the attitude as coaches is we give these and eventually at the end of the year they get faster and a lot of it is they would have gotten faster if they would have thought about swimming, and I think you have to have a detailed plan but we also have to evaluate exception, and that is the key, so the focus is change from an annual plan to planning a series usually 7, you know based on our week, seven days, it is not as revolutionary as it might sound, I think it’s taped in that information reading with that huge grain of salt and kind of apply principal.
(Question) The question was are we trying to screen and identify kids for predispositions for injury and redirect it and if I’d done anything like that? Um, yeah, and I think that is really, really key.  I believe Gary, testing vs. training and training vs. testing, and I think you look at just the basic, like crawling and that and you see whether or not right away we have a day available to us a terrific and it is called digital video and it is you know Gary and I decided years ago, but I would literally try to video tape each of your swimmers doing some criteria motor skills stuff, like crawling, take some opposition, we can talk later and go through some things I think you develop it relative to the age group and that and then you use that as a screen rather than, the thing is, I joke with my Aussie friends about muscular legal screen, you’ve seen some of the stuff that they are doing I think Wayne Goldsmith is tremendous and he has talked abut it actually and I think it is a waste of time.  If I do anything on a whim and this terrific, but it doesn’t tell us anything that really transfers to when I get in the pool or when I get on the track or something like that.  So, that is a big challenge to be coming up with some of those things.  I think the answer couldn’t be any simpler.  Let’s look at some of these more fundamental skills and video and analyze the act even the simple thing such as walking, you know that is pretty basic.

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