3 Words You Need to Know: Best Business Practices for Masters Programs by Mel Goldstein, Indy Aquatic Masters (2012)


[introduction, by Scott Bay]
This is the Masters Track. My name is Scott Bay; I am the current USMS Coaches Committee chair, and I have the pleasure of introducing one of our most valuable resources in United States Masters Swimming (USMS) in Coach Mel Goldstein. For those of you who have not been around Masters swimming for a long time, I just want to talk about Mel for just a little bit, because he always enjoys it. First of all, I have known Mel for a number of years. But his background in swimming: he swam for Doc Counsilman, back in the day—we are not going to say how long ago. He also has been with USMS for quite some time. He is a past-president of USMS. He is a Coach of the Year, in 2001. He has also won every award that USMS bestows upon its members, including the prestigious Ransom Arthur Award. (Mostly because he applies for them all, himself, every year. But, typically… they are all well-deserved—I don’t want to take anything away from Mel.) I am very pleased to introduce Mel Goldstein. He is with Indy Aquatic Masters, which is a program he started. It is one of the largest masters programs in the country, and it has been very successful. I am glad to have him here.

[Goldstein begins]
Thank you very much. Before we get started, I want to get a show of hands: how many do not have a Masters program yet? Okay. How many are planning on still working with a Masters program today?

I look at a Masters program as a business. And if you are in the coaching business, and you are coaching, I think that you need to really think outside of the box. And I hope for what you are going to take away from what I am going to try to pass on to you, from various models around the country that have been very successful. And if you pick-up one thing that will help increase revenue, then you are going to be way-ahead of the game.

I am going to show you a short, little video here—and, hopefully, my speaker will work. These are the people that you will be working with.

Incidentally, the young man, Ben Christoffel—who talked to you about the videos earlier—he was the one that put this video together for United States Masters Swimming. And for those, also, that do not know, that won the Not-for-Profit Telly Award which is given to non-profits for outstanding videos throughout the year—it is the same as an Emmy. Very, very well done.

If you do not have a Masters program in your facility, you should have one. There should not be a pool, there should not be a university, club, YMCA… that does not have a Masters program. And I talk about programs; I do not talk about teams. It is a program: it is an adult program.

3 words you need to know
So here are the three words that you need to know—I will use this over and over. Number 1: program. Program is for: an adult aquatic fitness program for people who have chosen aquatics as a means of exercise for a healthier lifestyle. It is generally made up of three components:
1. your fitness swimmer;
2. triathlete;
3. the competitive Masters swimmer.
The buzz word in America today is diversity. What other program in Aquatics, for adults, provides diversity as a Masters program does? And that is in age and in gender. Of course, every single facility is looking for revenue. If you keep those things in mind, when you have and set-up a program, a Masters program can be the best thing that ever happened to: any age group program because it can provide additional revenue for assistant coaches; it can be additional revenue for a Senior program; or could be for a college program for their college swim team. We are losing a lot of swim teams in colleges because they do not have the finances; but if they had a Masters program at their university, this could be some additional revenue. So we are going to talk about program, we are going to talk about diversity, and we are going to talk about revenue.

The program should be made available to everyone, all ages. This is just one thing that I try to incorporate: it is not all about competition, it is not all about fitness, it is not all about triathlons and triathletes who compete. Basically, it is a self-sustained program. It is a program… I like to… and you will see how I do this later-on, when we get into some budgets on different types of programs. It is self-sustained. I tried to work backwards: How much is my coaching cost? How much does a pool rental cost? How much does equipment cost? And so forth and so on. That is how I figure out what I am going charge on a program fee.

I am proud to say that: we have a business. If you are in the coaching business, you have to think outside of the box. You have to think: what can I do to raise revenue? If you have an Age Group program, it is not all about running swim meets. And you have to think about all the things that you need to do in order to increase revenue and make it self-sustained. And a Masters program can do all of those things, if you work at it.

(And this is in no disrespect.) As coaches, I find that we do a wonderful job on the deck: when it comes to writing workouts; when it comes to providing for swimmers pools. And so forth and so on. But we do not work off-the-deck. And if you are into coaching business, you need to be thinking off-the-deck. This is where I come in; this is what I try to do.

I want you to know something, and I do not throw this out… not because I am bragging about it. But we have a program in Indianapolis that provides for 300+ swimmers. We raised a quarter-of-a-million dollars in just program fees; this is without running any meets or anything else—these are from program fees. We are providing a service for our community. And if I can do that, you can do that. And some of the things that you are going to see here today, are some of the things that we do.

Ben talked about it earlier in his presentation: what are you going to charge? With regards to videotaping, we videotape and we charge. Our Masters people are willing to do this and adults are willing to do this.

What does a program provide you? It gives you on-deck coaching, and it also gives you structured workouts. It gives you stroke instruction. This is what Masters swimmers are looking for. They are looking for the latest swimming, skills—they saw the Olympics and now they want to do the same thing. But it also provides for camaraderie and fun. And how you set your program up is very important. And you can also provide for family and social activities. Those things, to me, are very important because it brings together your entire program.

Diversity & Revenue
And then of course, as I said: diversity. You have got young people, and you have got age and gender. I think that this is really important, when you stop and think about what you are providing. And all most Masters programs are asking for is a little bit of time during the day, especially in the morning, where they can swim for an hour and 15 minutes. Or in the evening, or in the afternoon, or in the late morning.

You know, an empty pool costs as much as one that is filled with a lot of people—it costs the same. So, whenever you can provide for a program… the reason a lot of pools are closing today is because they are poorly programmed. When you go to a pool and you see it is empty, that means that somebody is not doing their job. Because it should [not] be. Pools should be built so that… for instance, high school pools, I realize that they do not want to have co-mingling of adults with the students. But when they build those pools, they are not thinking outside of the box: there should be a separate entrance so that they can come in the side. So that during the day, when the pool is not being used, they should be able to use that facility, the community. But it is not and the pool stays empty. So there is a loss of some revenue. Poor programming is actually the key.

So we hope that you are going to get something out of this presentation that will provide you with some additional ideas on how to of course increase revenue. Revenue is the key. Every single facility is looking for programs, looking for diversity, they are looking for revenue. If you can show that to them, then you’re going to be very, very successful. Tell me another program, in aquatics, where you provide for anaerobic and aerobic workout that provides for adults for everybody, for male, female. In this program, a Masters Program does that.

Successful clubs
Let’s look at some of the common traits of the successful clubs:
• If you have got a pool. Honestly, that is important, that you have to have a stable pool.
• Coaching. That is you, and I am sure you would not be here if you did not feel like that was not provided.
• You cannot do it all. So you want to include your swimmers, in some sort of way, as a volunteer group. Will they do it as good as you? Maybe yes and maybe no. But you have got to be able to delegate some of that responsibility.
• Marketing and promoting. Promote your program. And there are various ways that you can do that—we will get into that a little bit, I will show you some of the things there.
• Make the program available to everyone. I know that there are places in the United States that have pools and Masters programs and they say, “Well, if you’re not fast enough, you can’t swim in this program.” I do not like those programs. My program is available, your program should be available, to everyone regardless.
• You have to have a well-thought-out financial base. You are in the coaching business, be in the coaching business: it is not just writing workouts and standing on deck; it is beyond that if you want to be successful. You want to know why we do not all have a disability plan and a medical plan? Because we are not thinking outside the deck. If everybody collectively got together and we started doing some of these things, we would be higher up on the food… well not the food chain, but we would be higher-up the educational part of Swimming, and salaries and so forth and so, on in this country.
• Always maintain a standard of excellence. If you act like a professional and put yourself out as a professional, then you will be perceived as a professional. Do not walk on the deck with Joe’s Bar and Grill on your t-shirt; have your team logo… have your team shirt on, have a logo shirt. Do not just sit there and write a workout on the board and then go sit down and read the newspaper. If practices start at 5:30 in the morning, you be there at 5:30 in the morning, whether there is 1 swimmer or 20 swimmers. You have to gain the respect and the credibility of your particular swimmers. That, to me, is the most important thing. Know who your swimmers are; know each one of the swimmers. Most important thing to each one of the swimmers is his or her name. Most important topic is about them. Now, you say, what does this have to do with best business practices? Practicing professionalism and credibility breeds success. It will breed success.

Types of clubs
These are the different types of clubs. (By the way, if you have any questions about/with anything as we go along, please don’t hesitate to raise your hand and ask questions.) Here, we have the different kinds of clubs that I have come across: YMCAs, just simple workout groups, park and rec facilities, university club teams, and age-group clubs. These are the different types of programs where Swimming is going on. And if you are not in any one of these, then you should be. If there is only one in the city, and there are three others, you can expand yourself into these other facilities if you find a pool time.

Find a need, fill the need
Let us talk about a stable pool situation and how you can increase the need. Find a need, fill the need. I always like to give the example of… most Master swimmers like to workout at 5:30 in the morning—I think that is just generally the rule of thumb. Sometimes they do an evening practice around 6 o’clock. But a bunch of young mothers came forward to me and said, “Hey, Mel, we just can’t make that 5:30. We’ve got to get our husbands and kids off to school and work. We just can’t.” I said, “When would you like to work out?” And they said, “Well, how about 8:30?” I said, “Okay.” So, I started to walk around in Indianapolis and find a pool that was available at 8:30. That aquatic director became my new best friend, and I found him. So now we have 15 to 20 young women and retired gentlemen who have come forward, and they are in this program because there is a time that they can work out. Find a need, fill a need.

I also like to use the example of the people who came to me and said, “You know, it’d really be nice if we have a lunch-time workout. We really don’t want to go to lunch. We’d like to have something around 11:30 or 12 o’clock.” Again, I go and find another best friend, and I find a pool that is not being used at 11:30, and now we have two practices at 11:30. Again, find a need, fill the need.

And you can look in your own backyard. Just because you are located in one pool, it does not mean that you cannot expand out into other facilities and provide for those same swimmers. Actually, what you are doing is you are widening your scope and everything comes together. And as I said earlier: an empty pool equals money down the drain. If a pool is not being used.… and all you have to do is walk around your community, and walk around the pool… find a time that is not being used and see if you can fit that need and fill that pool. I really try to find… and I try to barter, wherever I possibly can, whether it is volunteerism or whatever, in order to get that pool rental.

Coaching leadership
Coaching leadership: I think this is real, real important. You are the driving force. If you are willing to put forth, to use your experience and your enthusiasm, your program will prosper. This is how the successful programs across the country have been able to have of the success that they are is because of the coaching leadership.

And you have to make it exciting for the swimmers. They may only come once-a-week. That one time, if they have a favorable experience, they are going to come back. You cannot feel disrespected because so-and-so did not come to practice for a week. There are all kinds of things, when you are dealing with adults; that is: they might have lost a loved one, they might have lost a pet, they might have financial problems. But you have to be able to show that coaching leadership; welcome them, you are their new extended family. And to me, that is all part of coaching and all part of better business practices with regards to coaching.

As I said earlier, greet every swimmer by name. Talk to them about them. There was a coach in Virginia—that Scott and I… when we were giving the certification course—said that he shakes the hand of every swimmer, every day, that leaves his pool. I thought, ‘That’s really kind of a nice thing.’ But then I thought back and Doc Counsilman said to me once, “You know, if you touch one person every day in a kind way, then you’ve really touched… and they do the same, you will have touched 10,000 people in that same way that day.” God, what a wonderful world that would be if everybody did that. That is part of leadership and being a good coach. And that is what we need to do in order to be successful in our coaching business.

A supportive volunteer potential
Master swimmers are untapped resources. When they walk onto that deck, they are in their swimsuits, you do not know whether they are a president, CEO, president of the bank, or what. They can be very, very helpful to you in any of your endeavors. All they are looking for is feedback from you as a coach. Give them a good work out and they can become a tremendous resource.

And, on the other hand, I try to make sure that anybody, no matter who he or she is, who wants to swim, can swim. We make it available. Some people are on scholarships, some people we try to provide a fund in order to allow people to swim. And you can do this and offer discounts. Personally, we charge $55 a month for anybody 25 years and older. For those people that are 18-24, it is $30; and over 65 is $30. Now I realized that the rates that you charge are going to be basically based upon competition, based upon where you are in the United States with regards to your economics in those particular areas.

A well-thought-out financial base
I base fees on: pool rentals, lifeguard fees, coaches—and we are going to get into that here shortly, when determining fees. I barter services. I volunteer. I try to see that we can volunteer for various things to get a reduced rate. Help out the age group team: the age group times for meets if we have a meet and vice versa. I do a lot of that. And like I said, whenever there is a pool being built, or new, those folks become my new best friends. By the way, this is just a little added thing: the most important person at those pools, once you become ingrained in that pool, the most important person would be/is the guy with the key to getting into the facility. At Christmas time, you make sure that he gets a nice gift. Because he is when you are there, and you want that pool to be opened up.

Budget building
Alright, so let us look at the.… This is an hourly wage. This is basically… there is (3, 6, 7) 8 practices; I am assuming we get 5 lanes. This is how I build a budget. And $6 per lane—yes, I know that in some places it is more or less, but I just used a round number in there with that regard. You see the pool hours. And assuming that you are paying the coach $20, in some places it is going to be $25, and sometimes it is going to be a little bit less. [And] Other costs. But you can see, if you got 50 members, you can see what the revenue could be. So if you have control at your pool, and you have an age group coach that you would like for him or her to earn some additional revenue, to pay another coach, you can say that this can very well be done. Now this is based upon… if you are in a situation where there is an hourly wage.

Then we go to the next thing, and that is an annual salary. Let’s say you just agreed upon an amount. And you can see, basically the same scenario, but you can see what the excess in revenue/expenses are that way, based upon a flat annual salary.

And then the third type of facility-coaching partnership—and I kind of like this especially when you are starting a new-type program—and that is, if you have a program fee, you split that program fee with the facility. What that does, it gives the coach a little bit of ownership, because the more swimmers he gets, the more money he will make. Secondly, the facility will also make [more]. So you kind of have a partnership: if they will give you the time and you are going to be their coach, then you are going to be looking for extra swimmers and they are going to feel good about the fact that you are using pool time that they are not utilizing. That, to me, makes a lot of sense, especially for new programs because the coach then gets a little bit of ownership.

Anybody have any questions with regards to these three types of budgets that we put out: partnership, annual or hourly? Okay. (Got it all down: good.)

Marketing your program
Of course, word-of-mouth is always the very best. You can put flyers at pools. United States Masters Swimming has all kinds of marketing resources. If you have not seen some of those resources, you can stop by the booth downstairs [in the 2012 World Clinic Exhibit Hall], at booth 415, and you can pick up an order blank—all you have to do is pay for the postage. But we will send you brochures, we can send you a banner for your team; we can do a lot of things and that is things that you can use at your facilities. There are newspapers that provide for health sections; contact that health editor and ask them if you can put a blurb in that health section. Yellow Pages is an excellent place, you just have to put-in that you have an adult learn-to-swim program. Website: obviously, you should develop a website. Social media, today, is absolutely unbelievable, with Twitter and Facebook and websites. Set up a booth at marathons and triathlons. This is how you are going to market your program. They are going to see you at those locations.

One of the things that we do at some of these, that has been done, is we give a month [of] free lessons in triathlon. We do not offer it to the 1st place, 2nd or 3rd place; we offer it to 9th or 10th place because they are the ones who really need it. They cannot win it in the water, but they can lose in the water. And what we try to do is we try to make them feel as if, when it is time to do their other disciplines, that they get to that part as efficiently as they possibly can.

Of course, sell t-shirts and caps with your logo. But marathons and triathlons are excellent. Another thing: go to the local swim shop; see if being a member of your program, they would offer a 10% discount in exchange for supporting your store. I do not think there would be a store that would not do that. I think that is a great idea. So that also becomes a benefit of being a part of your program.

We talk about logo. There’s a tri-gear that you can get. Triathletes love gear: they have $10,000 bikes, they get virtual coaches; they have got everything that you could possibly imagine. And if you can put your logo on some of their gear, all you have is somebody running around all over the neighborhood and everywhere with your logo—great advertising! So, that, to me, is paramount; if you can do that.

I will also give you another boost. As coaches, we sometimes, when we do have that gear, we have polo shirts and we say, “Please order”. I have got so many things, and you have your trunk filled with small, medium, large and extra-large; and invariably, you always have the wrong size for the wrong person and whatever. We have now gone to CafePress.com. CafePress.com, you can pick-out exactly the type of polo shirt, the type of hoody, you want, the jacket you want. Put your logo on it. The swimmer sends to them and orders directly to them and ships directly to them. And the best part about it: CafePress sends you a check. Is not going to be as much as you would make normally selling, but you do not have inventory. So CafePress.com is a cool way to promote your logo. And you can put anything you want in the store: We had a lot of babies born a year or so ago, and we put onesies and twosies up there, with our logo on it. Big seller for us at that particular time.

Promote program activities
USMS has an awful lot of events: a 1-hour Postal event, 5K, 10K. These are the things that you can do in your program that brings your group together. You could also do some things that can help your community or help your Age Group program. For instance, the 1-hour Postal. The entrance fee is $7. You do it in your pool. How many of you people know about the Hour Swim or do not know about the Hour Swim? You do not? Okay. The Hour Swim is to see how far you could go in one hour. You have between January 1 to January 31 to do this swim. You could do it at any time you swim an hour; somebody times you, gets your splits for each of the 50s for one hour. And you submit your time, your times are then tabulated, you see how you rank against other people in your age group across the country.

We charge $20, for that. $13, because we are 501c3 corporation, we donate money to [a charity]… this past year was to the Little Red Door, which is for breast cancer. So if a 100 people that [swam], we gave $13,000 to Little Red Door. So, good effort. It could be for your Age Group team; it could be for anything. And each one of these postal events are done in your pool, so you can make it a team event, if you would like it to be—I do not like to say team—but you can make it a club event or program event. Especially if you are at YMCA; if you are at a YMCA, this is a great way to raise funds for your Strong Kids Campaign. When you do things like that, you became a good citizen. You could do it also at clubs or universities, helping the swim teams. Being a good citizen is very important.

Of course, you can do the standard. You can always pick a meet in the area that you want to support. You can put on team stroke clinics, if you want to do that; and you can charge for that to help make a little bit of extra money. There are raffles. Do you know what to do with those t-shirts? That everybody gets, at every single swim meet, or every event. Well, one of the gals in our program took all of my t-shirts, and sewed them onto a quilt. And then we raffled it off. So that is just another idea. You could do a 5K walk and run. All kinds of things that you can do within your community in order to raise money to help you. It does not have to be a swim meet, which is taxing not only on your volunteers but on your parents’ groups, and so forth and so on.

Think outside the box
This comes back to the last portion of my presentation, and that is: thinking outside of the box. And if you do not do that, you are not going to be successful; and you are always going to be scrapping around trying to see if you can pay this coach or get into this pool because you do not have a pool rental, or buy this equipment because you do not have the equipment and you are trying to scramble. But if you think outside of the box, there are a lot of things that you can do.

Here is one of the things that I have really enjoyed watching happen across the country. You have a Masters program, ok. There are hundreds-of-thousands of adults that are seeking learn-to-swim, right now. There are triathletes who have virtual coaches across the country. So, if you look at your program, your Masters program, providing for aerobic and anaerobic workout in Swimming, how do you get other swimmers, people that have not learned to swim—they do not know how to swim—into your program? Well, you establish a learn-to-swim program.

And at the YMCA that we were associated some time ago, we had a program called Get Wet. Get Wet 1 was a program that was set up for people that were terrified of water. Get Wet 2 was a program that was set up for people where we taught the basic fundamentals of learn-to-swim. Same principles and techniques and drills that we did in the full blown Masters program, we taught that. Stay Wet, which was the third phase, was a program where they get a little-bit of a work out, they learned to read the clock, and they swam, maybe 600 or 700 yards in that work out. And that was really a successful program.

Then you have the triathlon program. You are already doing the Swimming, so try to find somebody to work with: a triathlete coach. Again, we are thinking outside of the box. You cannot do it all. And have them develop a cycling program and develop a running program, which all feeds-into your Masters program.

And, as I said to you, the adult learn-to-swim program, the three phases were:
• afraid of water,
• learn-to-swim, and then
• teaching the basic fundamentals.

Let’s go back to the adult learn-to-swim program. It met once a week, seven sessions in the flat fee. They were 45-minutes long. Maximum of 8 swimmers. So, when you think about that and you say: Okay, I’ve got eight swimmers at learn-to-swim program, and then I’m going to work at my Stay Wet program—which is a precursor of getting into the full-blown program. This is how you set this program up.

Then the other thing, another phase (and I’m going to come back to this learn-to-swim program), you have got: utilizing pool space. Here is a pool that is configured like a lot of us have seen. And here is another configuration. Now, Synchronized Swimming; those folks have a difficult time finding pool time. Same thing with Water Polo—they have a hard time with the same thing. Let’s go look at that revenue.

You get six water polo players and they pay you $30 a month to play one-on-one, on one goal, in that area that is not being used during your swim practice. You are going to make about $2,000 a year. You have got six synchronized swimmers doing basically the same thing, in that area that you are not using; utilizing that pool. In fact, the one picture (if I can go back to it): this was done at the IU[PUI] Natatorium. I moved my swimmers out of one lane, so they could participate in their Synchronized Swimming. Yeah, that means there are 3 or 4 or 5 people in the lane; but it is worth it to me, in order to get the additional revenue.

And then, if you add to that the learn-to-swim program—where it is $45 per session, 7 sessions a year—you are talking about $2,500. And then if you get eight triathletes who are cycling and running, at $50 a month—and that is reasonable, that is probably very reasonable—that is $4,800. That is $11,000, utilizing space that is not being used, and providing something for others to build your program.

Maintaining a standard of excellence
So in conclusion here, maintaining a standard of excellence. Design, evaluate, adjust, re-evaluate; make sure you change. Yes, you are not all going to be able to do all of those things. But if you have gotten something out of this, you have got one aspect that will help provide you with some additional revenue. Continuing your education. United Sates Masters Swimming now has a Coaching Certification program. Some of you have taken it, some of you are starting to take it—that helps you. And that is different from what ASCA has provided for Level 1 and 2, because it deals with dealing with adults. Be open-minded and listen to your swimmers. Always do the extra credit, and try to think outside of the box.

I am eager to hear some of your ideas on what you do. And I have kind of dominated the thing of the better-part of thirty-plus minutes. But I am interested, for the last 15 minutes or so, to have some questions from somebody outside tell me: what do you do in order to raise revenue in your facility? Yes, sir?

[audience member]: Mel, be sure and let them know, if they contact USMS, they will send you or send Susan [Ingraham] to help them start a program—depending on whether they are on the East Coast or the West Coast?

[Goldstein]: Right. United States Masters Swimming has put forth a great deal of resources and funding for people to come to your facility and work with you to develop your programs. So if you are interested in developing your programs and making it a better program, United States Masters Swimming. And all you have to do is contact Bill Brenner, who is our Director of Club Development and Coaches Services, and he will set that up so we can come to you. And there is no cost for that. Yes, sir?

[audience member]: A cool thing, going back to thinking outside the box, a cool thing that we started to do was youth swim lessons during the time of Masters for those individuals who had children at home and want their kids in swim lessons. A lot of times, they were just sitting around the pool, watching their kid do lessons; and we offer them a sort of a discount or combined fee for both. And while their kid is in a half-hour lesson, they get a half-hour workout in. And it has been very successful.

[Goldstein]: So utilizing pool space, utilizing time, is a key factor. I know a lot of the things that I threw out here, and while I covered them very rapidly, it does take a little bit of work. Yes, you will have to do some work. But like anything else, you are in the coaching business; be in the coaching business. You can only charge swimmers so-much for program fees. At some point, there is going to be supply-and-demand, that is going to take effect. Make sure that you try to utilize your time and space. Yes, sir?

[audience member]: So a couple of things that we do at Asphalt Green; we have limited lane space because we are in Manhattan. We stopped promoting the Masters program and started really promoting private lessons. We have basically/virtually, no more lane space: we cannot fit anyone else in the lanes. So, the private lessons revenue has almost tripled what we expected, and it has added so much more. And it is causing a little bit of problem, because now those private lessons want to do Masters. So we are actually adding more Masters swimmers, even though the intention was to do private lessons. As well, when I was at Curl-Burke Masters, one of things we did with triathletes was not just give them gear but give them food. If you go to a tri[athlon], if you have a cook-out, triathletes will flock to you and it is just easy-pickings. They just love free food; they are going to come to you, and you can just easily grab them up and get them in your program. It is so much easier than having to buy a t-shirt and swim cap. Just go to Costco and buy a couple of pre-made hamburgers, and watch the triathletes flock to you.

[Goldstein]: Thinking outside the box; always thinking about what you can or cannot do that will make your program successful. I know the people that are around me go crazy when I come to them and say, “I got this idea.” And they all roll their eyes and say, “Oh no, he’s coming with another idea that we’re going to have to do some work.” But it is work. We have a successful program and you can be successful as well. I have made it a business. It is a business. We are a 501c3 corporation—we are full blown. We have our own board of directors. Our mission is to provide for the Indianapolis community for adults. So, you can do the same thing, but you have to be able to put forth that kind of effort. It is not just coaching on deck; it is being a professional and that, to me, is meaningful.

Any other questions? Thank you very much; I appreciate it.

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